Diplomatic Immunity

[vraiblonde]

I just came across this in a book I'm reading. Obviously I had heard of it before but I'd never really thought about it. Does this mean that some big wig (like an ambassador or something) can come into this country and, if they commit a crime, they won't be arrested? My next question is are they automatically deported, depending on the crime? My last question is do Americans enjoy this same status in other countries?

Anyone who knows about this, give me an education. I'm going to search the Net in the meantime to try and get some answers.

 

[bad1032]

Thats about right.Once they make it known about the Diplomatic immunity they have to be cut loose.All countrys have a contact person who is notified if one of them gets into trouble .Then their country decides if they will be procecuted and turned over or be deported.They can not even be given a parking ticket..Not sure about the Americans having the same rights

 

[Ken King]

Title 22, Chapter 6, Sec. 254d. - Dismissal on motion of action against individual entitled to immunity

Any action or proceeding brought against an individual who is entitled to immunity with respect to such action or proceeding under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, under section 254b or 254c of this title, or under any other laws extending diplomatic privileges and immunities, shall be dismissed. Such immunity may be established upon motion or suggestion by or on behalf of the individual, or as otherwise permitted by law or applicable rules of procedure

Title 22, Chapter 7, Sec. 288e(b) - Deportation of undesirables

Should the Secretary of State determine that the continued presence in the United States of any person entitled to the benefits of this subchapter is not desirable, he shall so inform the foreign government or international organization concerned, as the case may be, and after such person shall have had a reasonable length of time, to be determined by the Secretary of State, to depart from the United States, he shall cease to be entitled to such benefits.


Based on what it says here and what I believe to know as true (just haven’t found it yet), the person with immunity can be arrested but once immunity is confirmed the charge must be dismissed. Through diplomatic channels a country seeking prosecution can request that immunity is waived so that the person can be held for trial. If that country says no, that’s it.

 

[SeaRide]

Those cars w/ diplomatic tags

When I started working for the gov't in Wash DC area .. I learned to avoid any cars with diplomatic tags because of their immunity from traffic violations. So, I simply watch out for those cars and avoid them as far as possible. You 'll never know how they drive based on where they learned to drive ( in their country).

 

[RoseRed]

What qualifications are needed to be given diplomatic immunity status?

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by RoseRed
What qualifications are needed to be given diplomatic immunity status?

One needs to be a member of the mission or a family member that is not a US national or permanent resident.

 

[RoseRed]

Re: I remember a case ...

Originally posted by BchBns
about 5 or so years ago of a diplomat who was driving drunk in DC, hit a teenager's car and killed her. I believe he was sent back to his country, but he was never charged with anything as a result, nor was he to pay any restitution or anything to the family. People magazine ran a story about it back then.

I agree that this is a BS policy/law. If I go to another country, I need to observe the laws of their land; thus, they should, in turn (regardless of status) be held responsible for their actions on our land -- regardless of their citizen status! It's just not right, and sends the wrong message that people with "status" can commit crimes and get off on 'em ...

I think I remember that case. He was from the Soviet Union (Georgia?), but I thought that he did serve time and then was deported.

 

[Frank]

Originally posted by vraiblonde

Anyone who knows about this, give me an education. I'm going to search the Net in the meantime to try and get some answers.

See if you can find anything on Libyans in the 80's, in Great Britain. I seem to recall a case where they opened fire on passers-by right from the embassy window, but claimed ciplomatic immunity.

(It's used a bit in the second Lethal Weapon movie, and Mel Gibson's character ignores it for the same reason anyone else would).

 

[vraiblonde]

Now my question is: what is the purpose of diplomatic immunity? Usually I can think of a reason for some of the stupid laws we have in this country. But the rationale behind this one escapes me.

 

[justhangn]

If they are so immune, then a bullet between the eyes shouldn't hurt them.

 

[Frank]

I always thought that the point was to protect a foreigner from laws that they simply do not understand. I can't think of good ones here, but most of my Asian friends from grad school days could not grasp the concept of copyright infringement and plagiarism, and I had an African friend who had difficulty with some forms of the concepts of trespassing and privacy. Once informed, they would try to observe the ideas, but they still broke them, because the concept was unclear to them. I can only guess that I might be in a country and take a picture of something, or pick a flower, only to be informed I had committed a crime.

 

[vraiblonde]

Raises even MORE questions!

I thought diplomatic immunity was for government types, not students?

I also wonder why colleges and universities would admit foreign students who cannot understand the concept of basic laws in this country? Frankly, I'm having trouble understanding the concept of "diplomatic immunity".

 

[Ken King]

Here is the link to what it is I think you are looking for. Give it a try http://www.un.org/law/ilc/texts/consul.htm .

Immunity is only for the diplomat, the staff, or their families. Some of the students Frank mentioned could fall into those categories.

 

[vraiblonde]

Clay Hays, a State Dept guy, said:

"The underlying concept is that foreign representatives can carry out their duties effectively only if they are accorded a certain degree of insulation from the application of standard law enforcement practices of the host country." (I got that from Ask Yahoo)

Now I'm REALLY confused! I had to read that statement several times to make sure it said what I thought it said.

 

[Frank]

You might agree with it if you were in Saudi on official business and found a $20 in the street, picked it up and got charged with 'stealing'. Here, it's not a crime - there, it might be, and it wouldn't be worth losing a hand over.

 

[vraiblonde]

Do US officials get diplomatic immunity in other countries? Wouldn't that take care of the hypothetical $20 bill incident?

The docs I'm looking at indicate that foriegners aren't even subject to lawsuits in this county - yet they can sue with impunity.

 

[vraiblonde]

And in looking for information on this, I got on the subject of Michael Fay (the kid who was caned in Singapore for vandalizing cars). I found a marvelous commentary:
http://www.users.voicenet.com/~hhenry/Behavior/flgmkfy.html

"For example, the cost of maintaining one prisoner in our American-plan luxury prisons is somewhere around $35,000 per year, which covers recreation facilities, cable TV, weightlifting rooms, basketball, etc. But the sentence passed is really a fine levied against the taxpayers."

I thought that was interesting.

 

[BudoPo]

Diplomatic immunity makes sense in the aspect that Frank points out: to protect diplomats from laws they don't understand or are unaware of. Of course, normal tourists to other countries don't have this luxury, and I'd think that if tourists can stay out of trouble, then diplomats can as well.

I'm pretty sure that all diplomats (U.S. and others) enjoy immunity. I'm not sure if the worst that can happen is that they're deported, or if the immunity can be waived.

My parents once were trying to rent an apartment of theirs. A couple of sisters came by to look at it. They were daughters of a diplomat, going to the college right by the apartment. My parents rented to someone else, since the girls would be able to trash the place, not pay rent, etc and my folks would have no recourse (they seemed like nice enoough people, but my folks didn't want to take the chance).

BTW, someone posted that diplomats can't get parking tickets. They most certainly do. They just don't have to pay them. This is an issue that comes up in NYC every few years, usually with a top ten list of the worst offending countries (the cops use diplomats to help meet their monthly quota of tickets).

 

[Heretic]

The reason we give diplomatic immunity is so our ambassators etc have it in other countries so they dont get some false charge filed against them and executed for something like talking to a girl of a different social group. I agree in most countries its not needed but in that toilet called the middle east it keeps our people somewhat safe.

 

[Bruzilla]

Heretic is right on the money. If our diplomats didn't have immunity then any foreign government could charge them with all kinds of violations if they wanted to cause turmoil in the US mission there.