Michael Cohen Pled Guilty to Something That Is Not a Crime

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The Federal Election Campaign Act holds that an “expenditure” is any “purchase, payment, loan, advance, deposit or gift of money, or anything of value, for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office.” According to Cohen and the U.S. Attorney, the hush-money payments were, it appears, made in the hopes of preventing information from becoming public before the election, and hence were “for the purpose of influencing” the election. This means that, at a minimum, they had to be reported to the Federal Election Commission; further, if they were authorized by Mr. Trump, they would become, in the law’s parlance, “coordinated expenditures,” subject to limits on the amounts that could be spent. Since the lawful contribution limit is much lower than the payments made, and the payments were not reported, this looks like an open and shut case, right?

Well, no. Or at least not in the way some might presume. To the contrary, the law — following our common sense — tells us that the hush-money payments outlined by the U.S. Attorney are clearly not campaign expenditures. There is no violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act.

To reach the opposite conclusion, the U.S. Attorney is placing all his chips on the language “for the purpose of influencing an election.” Intuitively, however, we all know that such language cannot be read literally — if it were, virtually every political candidate of the past 45 years has been in near-constant violation. The candidate who thinks “I need to brush my teeth, shower, and put on a nice suit today in order to campaign effectively” is surely not required to report as campaign expenditures his purchases of toothpaste, soap, and clothing. When he eats his Wheaties — breakfast of champions, and surely one cannot campaign on an empty stomach — his cereal and milk are not campaign expenses. When he drives to his office to start making phone calls to supporters, his gas is not a campaign expense.

So what does it mean to be “for the purpose of influencing an[] election”? To understand this, we read the statutory language in conjunction other parts of the statute. Here the key is the statute’s prohibition on diverting campaign funds to “personal use.” This is a crucial distinction, because one of the primary factors separating campaign funds from personal funds is that the former must be spent on the candidate’s campaign, while the latter can be used to buy expensive vacations, cars, watches, furs, and such. The law defines “personal use” as spending “used to fulfill any commitment, obligation, or expense of a person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s election campaign.” So a candidate may intend for good toothpaste and soap, a quality suit, and a healthy breakfast to positively influence his election, but none of those are campaign expenditures, because all of those purchases would typically be made irrespective of running for office. And even if the candidate might not have brushed his teeth quite so often or would have bought a cheaper suit absent the campaign, these purchases still address his underlying obligations of maintaining hygiene and dressing himself.


Michael Cohen Pled Guilty to Something That Is Not a Crime
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Whatever money was paid out was clearly done to protect “Trump” the corporate brand – not Trump the political candidate, just as the Trump business has done before.

In the Justice Department’s memorandum not a single shred of evidence was presented to explain how a legal business expense became an illegal campaign contribution. Speculation is not enough to prosecute so-called “campaign finance violations.” Prosecutors need actual proof.

Even if the hush-money payments suddenly became a reportable Federal Election Commission (FEC) expenditure, they amount to a trivial FEC reporting issue – at worst. The money involved comes out to far less than President Obama’s millions in unlawful contributions, for which his 2008 campaign paid a fine, or the FEC’s investigation into Hillary Clinton’s $84 million money-laundering scheme.

Let’s also consider the source of the anti-Trump allegations here. Can we really trust Michael Cohen, a man who violated the legal profession’s most sacred concept of attorney-client privilege to save his own skin? Can we trust a disgraced turncoat lawyer who threw his longtime client into the fire of this penny-ante witch hunt?


https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tru...aign-finance-law-despite-what-prosecutors-say
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering what the point of all this is - we begin looking for Russian Collusion to throw an election, and we end up with failing to report a campaign thing.

Aside from the porn star stuff - isn't it clear enough that no one's really angling for "collusion" any more?
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering what the point of all this is - we begin looking for Russian Collusion to throw an election, and we end up with failing to report a campaign thing.

Aside from the porn star stuff - isn't it clear enough that no one's really angling for "collusion" any more?

Did they ever, wasn’t it all a pretext to uncover dirt on that bad, bad Republican Party?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Did they ever, wasn’t it all a pretext to uncover dirt on that bad, bad Republican Party?

I have to go back to people calling for recounts where the law didn't require it - for urging members of the Electoral College to vote differently -
to calls for impeachment REPEATEDLY before he even was inaugurated - to celebrities and others calling for killing him - to efforts to unseat him
via the 25th amendment - and any of a million cases of people trying to remove him from office and Hillary and Obama both going on endlessly
about him in a fashion unprecedented in modern politics -

I *have* to conclude it has NOTHING to do with justice or the rule of law.

In ancient or medieval times, when they would hold a kangaroo court, they might CLAIM it was for justice or the people, but no one
believed it. This is for revenge. They don't LIKE him. I get it. He threatens their cushy and pointless political lifestyle. I mean, THIS is why
many people I know choose not to vote, because they see it as pointless. He rubs people the wrong way. I am not sure *I* would like him,
personally. Too many in Washington are used to a political atmosphere that ultimately either does nothing or makes change so glacially slow
as to imitate NOTHING, and it doesn't matter which party it is.

Frankly I am kinda PISSED they're quibbling about sending me home for Christmas on furlough because of an amount that is trivial by
budgetary standards over a wall they have ALREADY undertaken to build. And some of them were FOR IT in the past. They're dicking around
with my ability to pay my mortgage and my bills - because a wall is "immoral". What a load of ####.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
And some of them were FOR IT in the past. They're dicking around with my ability to pay my mortgage and my bills - because a wall is "immoral". What a load of ####.



Merry Christmas and Happy New Years from Chuck and Nancy
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I am not sure *I* would like him, personally.

Most people who meet him in person really like him. The stories are told over and again by many who expected to hate him, and find him a charming and great guy.

That's NOT to say he's a great guy - I have no idea (nor do I care) whether he is a great guy or not. I don't "know" him, I know "of" him. Clinton clearly charmed the pants (and panties) off quite a few people, too, and what I know "of" Slick Willie causes me to want to see justice come to him and his wife.

They're dicking around with my ability to pay my mortgage and my bills - because a wall is "immoral". What a load of ####.

One of the many reasons that they say to keep six months of pay in savings. Of course, only some miniscule portion of people can (or will) ever do this, and I am NOT one of them. But, it's for things like this (and, of course, many other things).
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
One of the many reasons that they say to keep six months of pay in savings.

USUALLY when someone suggests that I want to bust 'em in the chops. Who *really* has the money to cover six months' expenses?
I'm lucky just to come out EVEN each month, and usually don't.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
USUALLY when someone suggests that I want to bust 'em in the chops. Who *really* has the money to cover six months' expenses?
I'm lucky just to come out EVEN each month, and usually don't.

I taught it to all four of my kids. One does it. My dad taught it to all three of his kids, one does it (not me).

It's not impossible, it just feels like it when you're choosing which vehicle to buy next, or whether or not you can afford the new cell phone. I chose a pickup truck instead of a Focus, and I do not have the money in savings (and when I got hit recently, I walked away fine).



[Edit: Necessity is usually a driver for people who do it, I think. My sister, the one of three that does it, does so because her husband has had something like 4 jobs/year (on average) since they married. She likes to keep eating while he's looking for an employer he doesn't think is mean to him, so she works her butt off to keep six months, and get it back when he gets back to work. My daughter, on the other hand, is just a financial freak of nature.]
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
It's not impossible

It is for me. A combination of income getting smaller and bills getting higher, I have a net minus each month.
I wish it was different, but without occasional raids on my retirement, we end up bankrupt.

Kinda why I am pissed at what's going on in DC. No one there is in any danger of going broke.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Let me know when enough people get enough of this anti-Trump sh1t to so something about it.
We can make Antifa look like a Boy Scout meeting.

March on these sonsabitches and make their lives miserable.
 

transporter

Well-Known Member
The Federal Election Campaign Act holds that an “expenditure” is any “purchase, payment, loan, advance, deposit or gift of money, or anything of value, for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office.” According to Cohen and the U.S. Attorney, the hush-money payments were, it appears, made in the hopes of preventing information from becoming public before the election, and hence were “for the purpose of influencing” the election. This means that, at a minimum, they had to be reported to the Federal Election Commission; further, if they were authorized by Mr. Trump, they would become, in the law’s parlance, “coordinated expenditures,” subject to limits on the amounts that could be spent. Since the lawful contribution limit is much lower than the payments made, and the payments were not reported, this looks like an open and shut case, right?

Well, no. Or at least not in the way some might presume. To the contrary, the law — following our common sense — tells us that the hush-money payments outlined by the U.S. Attorney are clearly not campaign expenditures. There is no violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act.

To reach the opposite conclusion, the U.S. Attorney is placing all his chips on the language “for the purpose of influencing an election.” Intuitively, however, we all know that such language cannot be read literally — if it were, virtually every political candidate of the past 45 years has been in near-constant violation. The candidate who thinks “I need to brush my teeth, shower, and put on a nice suit today in order to campaign effectively” is surely not required to report as campaign expenditures his purchases of toothpaste, soap, and clothing. When he eats his Wheaties — breakfast of champions, and surely one cannot campaign on an empty stomach — his cereal and milk are not campaign expenses. When he drives to his office to start making phone calls to supporters, his gas is not a campaign expense.

So what does it mean to be “for the purpose of influencing an[] election”? To understand this, we read the statutory language in conjunction other parts of the statute. Here the key is the statute’s prohibition on diverting campaign funds to “personal use.” This is a crucial distinction, because one of the primary factors separating campaign funds from personal funds is that the former must be spent on the candidate’s campaign, while the latter can be used to buy expensive vacations, cars, watches, furs, and such. The law defines “personal use” as spending “used to fulfill any commitment, obligation, or expense of a person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s election campaign.” So a candidate may intend for good toothpaste and soap, a quality suit, and a healthy breakfast to positively influence his election, but none of those are campaign expenditures, because all of those purchases would typically be made irrespective of running for office. And even if the candidate might not have brushed his teeth quite so often or would have bought a cheaper suit absent the campaign, these purchases still address his underlying obligations of maintaining hygiene and dressing himself.


Michael Cohen Pled Guilty to Something That Is Not a Crime

You posted this same basic bullsh!t when Cohen originally pleaded guilty, comrade.

Naturally the ignorati will believe that the accused will plead guilty...his high priced attorneys will agree and advise him to plead guilty...and that a judge will accept a guilty plea....to something that isn't a crime.

That might be how things work in your country...but not here comrade.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
You posted this same basic bullsh!t when Cohen originally pleaded guilty, comrade.

Naturally the ignorati will believe that the accused will plead guilty...his high priced attorneys will agree and advise him to plead guilty...and that a judge will accept a guilty plea....to something that isn't a crime.

That might be how things work in your country...but not here comrade.

Cohen is saying he believes that he did it for campaign purposes. Trump has not had a chance to respond in court, because Trump has not been charged, let alone indicted.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Can you send someone to jail for something that isn't a crime? Or was he charged on other things?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Can you send someone to jail for something that isn't a crime? Or was he charged on other things?

Gobs of other things.

The likely scenario is that they caught him on several more tax issues than those for which they charged him, and threw the "campaign violations" in on top of that. "Plead guilty to this, and you will never be prosecuted for those," they likely said. Recall, he was up for 65 years in prison for the tax and bank-fraud charges, but the prosecutors recommended 46 months (yes, that's right, 65 years to 46 months). He got three years from the judge.

By forcing him to plead guilty, they are suggesting that HE is saying that he did the NDA payments solely for campaign purposes. There's no evidence to that in any other thing of which we are currently aware. Thus, it is now out there to call Trump "an unindicted co-conspirator", which sounds really bad. To the best of our knowledge, there is not a shred of evidence to back up that Trump did anything other than keep his wife from knowing he slept with some gold diggers, but it's still being reported as campaign violations.

Once again, Obama had almost $2M in illegal campaign funding issues and he was fined, quietly, $375,000. Trump is looking at, potentially, something like $300,000 in illegal campaign financing violations, which is likely to lead to a massive yawn from the public and a $50,000 fine. But, in the meantime, he is an "unindicted co-conspirator" to something that is ONLY a crime if it is proven that he paid for it for the sole purpose of campaign issues.

Now, he can do that. He can use his own money to keep someone quiet for campaign purposes. There's nothing against the law in that. That's the failure of the prosecution here. If Trump paid for it, no one broke the law. If Cohen paid for it - even if Trump paid him back later - without Trump's knowledge and without expectation of being repaid, then ONLY Cohen broke the law.

But, today, they can use the phrase.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Trump is looking at, potentially, something like $300,000 in illegal campaign financing violations, which is likely to lead to a massive yawn from the public and a $50,000 fine.


except it was not a violation - Trump can spend his OWN money on his Campaign
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
:confused:

I pretty much said that later in the post. I was saying the line you quoted basically as an "if their point were true" kind of thing.

Cohen is trying to save his own ass.
He is reacting to coercion.
Some have the moral fiber to stand up to it and others don't.

In the old days they used to beat hell out of suspects to coerce them.
Today they take their homes their savings, their ability to earn a living.
Like they did with Manafort.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Can you send someone to jail for something that isn't a crime? Or was he charged on other things?

No, but you can shave a few years off of a sentence by admitting to a "crime" that advances a prosecutors agenda.
 
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