Democrats vowed to appeal a federal judge's ruling

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Washington (AFP) - Outraged Democrats vowed to appeal a federal judge's ruling that could undo the US health care law known as Obamacare, saying on Saturday that they will use their new power in Congress to hold Republicans responsible and "expose their lies."

Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer tweeted that Republicans had pretended to care about those protected by Obamacare "while quietly trying to remove that support in the courts. Next year, we will force votes to expose their lies."

Democrats see the law as a signature achievement of former president Barack Obama, while Republicans dismiss it as governmental overreach. Donald Trump made abolishing and replacing the program a central pledge of his presidential campaign.

In a separate Obamacare case in 2012, five of the nine Supreme Court justices upheld the law. All five remain on the court.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-judge...itutional-democrats-vow-appeal-102729204.html
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Without the mandate - I don't think anyone could argue it is constitutional.

Seemed to me that WITH the mandate it was very difficult to argue it is constitutional. There is no way that telling people they must purchase a product simply because they exist is constitutional.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Obamacare benefited some but royally screwed over many more than it ever helped. The outrageous monthly costs of a typical policy in combination with deductibles approaching 10K make it beyond useless...so why buy it?? It's just money wasted for nothing gained.

And now that the system is so wacked out....how is it ever going to be fixed?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
And now that the system is so wacked out....how is it ever going to be fixed?

Obamacare was never about helping people or fixing a health care system. It was about extorting money from We the People. It was a shell game all along.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Obamacare was never about helping people or fixing a health care system. It was about extorting money from We the People. It was a shell game all along.

I know that. But now that the damage has been done and insurance made so expensive and yet useless at the same time...how they going to put that toothpaste back in the tube?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I know that. But now that the damage has been done and insurance made so expensive and yet useless at the same time...how they going to put that toothpaste back in the tube?

Well, if it were me, I'd just axe it and let the chips fall where they may. Sure, there'd be some culling of the herd, but it would benefit Americans in the long run.

As it stands, our politicians aren't going to do that, so the real answer is "too late, we're stuck with it." Thanks, you ####ing retarded Democrats.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
And PS, you'll be fined if you don't.

See, I don't know the law, but I got the general idea that they were ABLE to make it Constitutional *because* of the fine or "tax".
As in, you either do this behavior or we tax you, just as people are taxed by other behaviors.

And if it was a "fine" - then you couldn't do it, because then you clearly are FORCING people.
It amounts to the same, but if it was a "tax", you could legally justify it that way - do this, or pay more tax.
Without the tax, they have nothing to stand on to FORCE people to do it. You can't "arrest" someone for not
signing up and you can't tax them anymore.

Anyway - that's how I understood it to work.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Well, if it were me, I'd just axe it and let the chips fall where they may. Sure, there'd be some culling of the herd, but it would benefit Americans in the long run..

I think the last number of persons on Obamacare I'd heard was in the vicinity of 20 million.
EVERY person I know on Obamacare hates it, because they're generally healthy and the deductible is higher than they're ever likely to
pay for health care in a year, so they're paying PREMIUMS to get a service that they never receive - as in, I'm paying premiums
so I can see the doctor for just a simple co-pay. The premiums are just money down the drain for them, because if they have no prescriptions
and just see a doctor a few times a year, they're paying the FULL price of the visit.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I think the last number of persons on Obamacare I'd heard was in the vicinity of 20 million.
EVERY person I know on Obamacare hates it, because they're generally healthy and the deductible is higher than they're ever likely to
pay for health care in a year, so they're paying PREMIUMS to get a service that they never receive - as in, I'm paying premiums
so I can see the doctor for just a simple co-pay. The premiums are just money down the drain for them, because if they have no prescriptions
and just see a doctor a few times a year, they're paying the FULL price of the visit.

The ACA is not to help Americans afford health care, it is to make insurance companies rich.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I think the last number of persons on Obamacare I'd heard was in the vicinity of 20 million..

Actually almost every number I have since looked up is WAY below that number, and shrinking.
If they don't kill Obamacare, it will die by itself.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The ACA is not to help Americans afford health care, it is to make insurance companies rich.

Problem what that fallacy is...insurance companies pulled out of many markets altogether, and hiked premiums and increased deductibles in others, precisely because they were NOT making money. The problems are with the providers..the system and complete range of health care services (aggravated by a constant and massive assault by the "legal profession"). That's where the costs are.

Those costs took off like a rocket ship back when employers first started skirting wage controls by providing health insurance. Once "somebody else" was paying the freight, there was no longer any real incentive for providers to strive to keep costs low and away they went. Kinda like the cost of a college education...when there are so many sources of "easy money" to pay tuition, the cost of it rises without any downward economic pressure.
 
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This_person

Well-Known Member
Actually almost every number I have since looked up is WAY below that number, and shrinking.
If they don't kill Obamacare, it will die by itself.

It depends on what you mean by "on Obamacare". EVERYONE is on Obamacare, because it controls what the insurance companies are required to provide as well as mandating who be covered. In short, everyone except those who can't afford it (you know, the people it was designed to help) have to have insurance.

So, your friends who are paying premiums with unobtainable deductibles may not be covered by an exchange, but they are "on Obamacare" just like you and I are.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
In short, everyone except those who can't afford it (you know, the people it was designed to help) have to have insurance.

I gotta admit, the solution left a lot to be desired.

"Don't have insurance? - great. Now there's a LAW - you HAVE TO BUY IT. Problem solved."
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I gotta admit, the solution left a lot to be desired.

"Don't have insurance? - great. Now there's a LAW - you HAVE TO BUY IT. Problem solved."

You forgot (maybe), "Still can't afford it at the regular cost? Even better. We'll give it to you for ALMOST FREE!!!"
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
You forgot (maybe), "Still can't afford it at the regular cost? Even better. We'll give it to you for ALMOST FREE!!!"

"Free" does not mean what you think it means in this context.

It is subsidized with taxpayer dollars, or borrowed dollars, and that which is subsidized is essentially crap. Going to the Emergency Room and getting "free" care there was probably a better deal for them.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
"Free" does not mean what you think it means in this context.

It is subsidized with taxpayer dollars, or borrowed dollars, and that which is subsidized is essentially crap. Going to the Emergency Room and getting "free" care there was probably a better deal for them.

No insurance company can afford to withstand the payout to people with pre-existing conditions without raping those without pre-existing conditions.
Now that's a fact no one can argue.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
No insurance company can afford to withstand the payout to people with pre-existing conditions without raping those without pre-existing conditions.
Now that's a fact no one can argue.

The thing is, most reputable companies did cover pre-existing conditions - they just charged an arm and a leg for it. Very few people were without insurance previous to Obamacare that wanted insurance. The goal was to get people like Sam was talking about - those who really didn't want it, didn't need it (they thought), and were unwilling to pay premiums for a service they didn't use - to pay premiums for a service they wouldn't use such that the premiums could be offset. In doing so, you slowly cripple the insurance industry (because pre-existing conditions are REALLY expensive) until you "have to" go single payer. THAT was the goal.

Had 2016 gone differently, that goal would have been achieved.
 
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