The Law Flynn ‘Violated’ Should Be Repealed

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
While much has been written about the entrapment of Michael Flynn by the ethically challenged Andrew McCabe and his accomplice Peter Strzok, little discussion has been devoted to the constitutionally dubious federal law under which he was charged. Most commentators have noted in a cursory fashion that it is a felony to mislead the FBI, and then quickly moved on to the latest machinations of the ridiculous Mueller investigation. But the trap set for Flynn wouldn’t have been possible but for a Stalinesque statute that has been denounced by jurists as ideologically diverse as William Rehnquist and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Most Americans believe that, to be convicted of perjury, one must lie under oath in some legal proceeding. But the Federal False Statements Act (18 U.S.C. § 1001), passed in the 19th century to punish con artists for presenting fraudulent invoices to the government, is now being selectively deployed by corrupt federal officials to entrap anyone who — under oath or not — makes some inaccurate statement to a government official. It doesn’t matter if any crime, financial or otherwise, has actually been committed. An indictment can be secured even if, as in Flynn’s case, there has been no prior warning of potential legal jeopardy.

If that gives you the creeps, you’re not alone. That notorious right wing agitator, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, wrote an opinion in 1998 outlining how this statute creates enormous potential for abuse by federal officials. She was concerned by “the extraordinary authority” the Federal False Statements Act “has conferred on prosecutors to manufacture crimes.” And Ginsburg was right to be concerned. That is precisely how the FBI, under the “leadership” of James Comey, used it. Nearly two decades before the FBI entrapped Flynn, she presciently described how such people could abuse the law for this purpose:

§1001 may apply to encounters between agents and their targets under extremely informal circumstances which do not sufficiently alert the person interviewed to the danger that false statements may lead to a felony conviction… the suspect is not informed of the right to remain silent. Unlike proceedings in which a false statement can be prosecuted as perjury, there may be no oath, no pause to concentrate the speaker’s mind on the importance of his or her answers.



https://outline.com/kTF8ff
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
It occurs to me that the next Democratic president could come under fire for colluding with aliens.

And a special counsel could subsequently send all kinds of persons to jail for various counts of perjury or obstruction of justice.

See, I've always been suspicious of process crimes, where people are found guilty, but the thing they're looking for doesn't actually exist.
It's like being sent to jail for murder or conspiracy to commit murder - and it's found out later the person faked their death.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
While much has been written about the entrapment of Michael Flynn by the ethically challenged Andrew McCabe and his accomplice Peter Strzok, little discussion has been devoted to the constitutionally dubious federal law under which he was charged. Most commentators have noted in a cursory fashion that it is a felony to mislead the FBI, and then quickly moved on to the latest machinations of the ridiculous Mueller investigation. But the trap set for Flynn wouldn’t have been possible but for a Stalinesque statute that has been denounced by jurists as ideologically diverse as William Rehnquist and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Most Americans believe that, to be convicted of perjury, one must lie under oath in some legal proceeding. But the Federal False Statements Act (18 U.S.C. § 1001), passed in the 19th century to punish con artists for presenting fraudulent invoices to the government, is now being selectively deployed by corrupt federal officials to entrap anyone who — under oath or not — makes some inaccurate statement to a government official. It doesn’t matter if any crime, financial or otherwise, has actually been committed. An indictment can be secured even if, as in Flynn’s case, there has been no prior warning of potential legal jeopardy.

If that gives you the creeps, you’re not alone. That notorious right wing agitator, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, wrote an opinion in 1998 outlining how this statute creates enormous potential for abuse by federal officials. She was concerned by “the extraordinary authority” the Federal False Statements Act “has conferred on prosecutors to manufacture crimes.” And Ginsburg was right to be concerned. That is precisely how the FBI, under the “leadership” of James Comey, used it. Nearly two decades before the FBI entrapped Flynn, she presciently described how such people could abuse the law for this purpose:
§1001 may apply to encounters between agents and their targets under extremely informal circumstances which do not sufficiently alert the person interviewed to the danger that false statements may lead to a felony conviction… the suspect is not informed of the right to remain silent. Unlike proceedings in which a false statement can be prosecuted as perjury, there may be no oath, no pause to concentrate the speaker’s mind on the importance of his or her answers.



https://outline.com/kTF8ff

Such as the case may be, I find it unlikely that this is the only charge that they've got in their pocket, just the least chargeable one. If the judge decides to toss this one for government malfeasance expect a new charge to pop up the next day.
 

transporter

Well-Known Member
While much has been written about the entrapment of Michael Flynn by the ethically challenged Andrew McCabe and his accomplice Peter Strzok, little discussion has been devoted to the constitutionally dubious federal law under which he was charged. Most commentators have noted in a cursory fashion that it is a felony to mislead the FBI, and then quickly moved on to the latest machinations of the ridiculous Mueller investigation. But the trap set for Flynn wouldn’t have been possible but for a Stalinesque statute that has been denounced by jurists as ideologically diverse as William Rehnquist and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Most Americans believe that, to be convicted of perjury, one must lie under oath in some legal proceeding. But the Federal False Statements Act (18 U.S.C. § 1001), passed in the 19th century to punish con artists for presenting fraudulent invoices to the government, is now being selectively deployed by corrupt federal officials to entrap anyone who — under oath or not — makes some inaccurate statement to a government official. It doesn’t matter if any crime, financial or otherwise, has actually been committed. An indictment can be secured even if, as in Flynn’s case, there has been no prior warning of potential legal jeopardy.

If that gives you the creeps, you’re not alone. That notorious right wing agitator, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, wrote an opinion in 1998 outlining how this statute creates enormous potential for abuse by federal officials. She was concerned by “the extraordinary authority” the Federal False Statements Act “has conferred on prosecutors to manufacture crimes.” And Ginsburg was right to be concerned. That is precisely how the FBI, under the “leadership” of James Comey, used it. Nearly two decades before the FBI entrapped Flynn, she presciently described how such people could abuse the law for this purpose:

§1001 may apply to encounters between agents and their targets under extremely informal circumstances which do not sufficiently alert the person interviewed to the danger that false statements may lead to a felony conviction… the suspect is not informed of the right to remain silent. Unlike proceedings in which a false statement can be prosecuted as perjury, there may be no oath, no pause to concentrate the speaker’s mind on the importance of his or her answers.



https://outline.com/kTF8ff

I see your handlers have provided you with a new resource comrade.

This post is a really nice way to mix words. It is sure to work with the ignorati types....however:

1. "Perjury" is lying under oath. Lying to the cops or FBI during an investigation isn't perjury...it is more akin to obstruction. So very nice try to confuse two mutually exclusive concepts. In the end, "lying" is still wrong...whether you want to admit it or not.

2. Flynn did not provide an "inaccurate statement". He was asked the same questions numerous times. At each subsequent asking, he could have walked back his previous comments. He didn't. He continued to lie.

3. Flynn isn't some babe in the woods like you and the rest of your propagandists want to make him out to be. He knew lying to the FBI, the VP and everyone else around him was wrong. He knew lying to the FBI was illegal.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Justice Ginsburg would still be against this law now that her liberal friends are getting so much mileage out of it.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I see your handlers have provided you with a new resource comrade.

Anyone or Anything that does not conform to YOUR World View is Either Ignorant, Uneducated, Propaganda or Selfish ..... a Russian Bot, a Russian Troll From Minsk or a "disinformation campaign"


This post is a really nice way to mix words. It is sure to work with the ignorati types ....


you type words, but you offering nothing about the topic at hand


Federal False Statements Act (18 U.S.C. § 1001), passed in the 19th century .....

in THIS Discussion Flynn was Not under oath so there is NO Perjury

2. Flynn did not provide an "inaccurate statement". He was asked the same questions numerous times.


Really When :shrug: because this discussion is about the Interview at the White House


At each subsequent asking, he could have walked back his previous comments. He didn't. He continued to lie.

really when ? and to whom ? yeah he should have not lied to the VP


3. Flynn isn't some babe in the woods like

who said he was ... more of your Fantasy, Supposition, Innuendo and Unfounded OPINION

you and the rest of your propagandists


Anyone or Anything that does not conform to YOUR World View is Either Ignorant, Uneducated, Propaganda or Selfish ..... a Russian Bot, a Russian Troll From Minsk or a "disinformation campaign"



want to make him out to be. He knew lying to the FBI, the VP and everyone else around him was wrong. He knew lying to the FBI was illegal.


was he lying ...
or did he misspeak ....
according to the 'notes' the FBI, during the interview, Flynn was calm and relaxed, and showed NONE of the typical actions by someone LYING



Judge Sullivan probably smells a rat in the Flynn case. His request for additional records from Mueller, including those relating to the January 2017 FBI interview, may mean he suspects Flynn was tricked into pleading guilty to violating the Federal False Statements Act. Sullivan is all too aware of Mueller’s malleable ethics, has zero patience with prosecutorial chicanery, and is certainly familiar with the potential abuses of the statute Flynn allegedly violated. Moreover, he cannot have been pleased by Mueller’s gratuitous attacks on Flynn in the former’s most recent court filing. The Hill reports the special counsel rebuked Flynn as follows:

Nothing about the way the interview was arranged or conducted caused the defendant to make false statements to the FBI on January 24.… The defendant chose to make false statements about his communications with the Russian ambassador weeks before the FBI interview, when he lied about that topic to the media.… The Court should reject the defendant’s attempt to minimize the seriousness of those false statements to the FBI.

Judge Sullivan doesn’t care about lies told to the media. And he isn’t likely to throw the book at Flynn for violating the Federal False Statements Act if the alleged lie wasn’t material to the investigation. As liberal defense lawyer Alan Dershowitz has repeatedly explained, “If the FBI already knew the answer to the question… and asked it only to elicit a lie, should that lie be deemed material?”

Did Flynn Lie?

None of this explains why General Flynn was under investigation. None of it explains why the FBI interviewed Flynn when it had recordings of his conversations with Kislyak and did not need him to explain them. That is why, as someone who is sympathetic to Flynn and strongly suspects the government trapped him, I have been open to the possibility that he was pressured into pleading guilty to something he did not do. But I do not see how that makes sense. The information Flynn gave was inaccurate, he told a U.S. court he lied, he had a motive to lie, and his current position is that he was duped into lying.





Why was the FBI asking Flynn questions about a conversation the FBI already knew the answers to :shrug
Why was Flynn under investigation in the 1st place
Who leaked details of the investigation to the Press
 

terbear1225

Well-Known Member
I see your handlers have provided you with a new resource comrade.

This post is a really nice way to mix words. It is sure to work with the ignorati types....however:

1. "Perjury" is lying under oath. Lying to the cops or FBI during an investigation isn't perjury...it is more akin to obstruction. So very nice try to confuse two mutually exclusive concepts. In the end, "lying" is still wrong...whether you want to admit it or not.

2. Flynn did not provide an "inaccurate statement". He was asked the same questions numerous times. At each subsequent asking, he could have walked back his previous comments. He didn't. He continued to lie.

3. Flynn isn't some babe in the woods like you and the rest of your propagandists want to make him out to be. He knew lying to the FBI, the VP and everyone else around him was wrong. He knew lying to the FBI was illegal.

wrong#illegal. It is wrong for my 10 yo to lie to his teacher. Does not mean he should go to jail for it. It is wrong to cheat on your spouse, doesn't make it a crime.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Justice Ginsburg would still be against this law now that her liberal friends are getting so much mileage out of it.

My guess is, yes.

That's my guess based on her ideological strength. It's not that I agree with most of her ideology, it's that she is very strong in it.
 
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