HOA question

amethyst_babes

New Member
Our HOA is now forming (the # of houses required for turnover from the developer have been sold) and I was hoping someone here might have some information on what to expect at the turnover meeting.

I am going to try to volunteer for a position on the board (to hopefully keep the rules sane) so I am trying to find information on the internet, but most of what I've found is written for the developer not the homeowner (unless you want to read HOA horror stories)
 

willie

Well-Known Member
I would have thought the rules would have to have been already formulated before anyone bought anything. Be sure not to allow deer skinning in the front yard. If you're going to be a member of the Board, prepare to meet a lot of enemies. You have my sympathy.
 

FairyChatMom

Just me
amethyst_babes said:
I am going to try to volunteer for a position on the board (to hopefully keep the rules sane) so I am trying to find information on the internet, but most of what I've found is written for the developer not the homeowner (unless you want to read HOA horror stories)
Good luck with that. I had intended to do the same the last time I lived in a place with an HOA. But the power-mad got in there and took over, and I was never so glad to sell a house as that one. Never again.

I have no scientific evidence to support my theory, but I'm convinced that the only people who wind up on HOA boards are petty bureaucrats who like sticking their noses in other folks' business. At least that's been my experience. Apologies to the non-power-mad out there who run sane boards...
 
K

Kain99

Guest
I grew up in an HOA neighborhood.... The lots were beautiful and value was up! I like HOA's. My husband on the other hand hates them. Thinks that people have no business in your business.

Personally, I wish every single day that we had an HOA here on the Farm.... You would not believe the junk people collect and leave laying in their yards.
 

CMC122

Go Braves!
FairyChatMom said:
Good luck with that. I had intended to do the same the last time I lived in a place with an HOA. But the power-mad got in there and took over, and I was never so glad to sell a house as that one. Never again.

I have no scientific evidence to support my theory, but I'm convinced that the only people who wind up on HOA boards are petty bureaucrats who like sticking their noses in other folks' business. At least that's been my experience. Apologies to the non-power-mad out there who run sane boards...
You gonna take that Huntr? :popcorn:
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
Kain99 said:
I grew up in an HOA neighborhood.... The lots were beautiful and value was up! I like HOA's. My husband on the other hand hates them. Thinks that people have no business in your business.

Personally, I wish every single day that we had an HOA here on the Farm.... You would not believe the junk people collect and leave laying in their yards.


I live in an HOA neighborhood. HOA's are great as long as the board makes everyone stick to the rules. Everyone has a copy of the Covenants & Restrictions BEFORE they move into the 'hood. If you don't like something, buy elsewhere. If you want to do something that is restricted, then change the rules before you do it. But don't break the rules and expect the board to overlook it.

A functional HOA board sticks to the rules with no exceptions. So, the best advice I can give is to make sure the rules are followed. If the majority doesn't like something, change the rules BEFORE you allow people to break them. Any other approach, and you're creating a liability for your HOA.
 
amethyst_babes said:
Our HOA is now forming (the # of houses required for turnover from the developer have been sold) and I was hoping someone here might have some information on what to expect at the turnover meeting.

I am going to try to volunteer for a position on the board (to hopefully keep the rules sane) so I am trying to find information on the internet, but most of what I've found is written for the developer not the homeowner (unless you want to read HOA horror stories)
I am the president of my HOA. Have been since the developer turned it over to us. Expect apathy. Our HOA is about dead. We have monthly meetings, and we are lucky when all the board members attend, let alone any non-boardmember home owners. Before you take over the HOA from the developer, make sure you take a walk thru your neighborhood and inspect it for debris piles left on HOA property by the developer/builders and other things like that which you will need to bring up to the developer at the turnover meeting, to try to get him to correct the items. Good luck getting him to do anything. Also, check the plat/description of the neighborhood that the developer filed with the county to make sure the developer has done everything he said he would (ours was required by the county to install 2 tot lots, but the county has no guidelines for what constitutes a tot lot, and they refunded his construction bond without verifying that he had put them in), if there are stormwater collection/management ponds, inspect them and make sure they work and were created properly, including proper grading and drainage ditch construction, before you accept the turnover. Once the turnover is complete, unless you have brought these items to the attention of the developer (in writting) and gotten assurances (in writting) that he will correct any problems, these problems become the responsibility of the HOA.
 
CMC122 said:
You gonna take that Huntr? :popcorn:
I make no bones about it, I AM power hungry! I wanted to be President, and I am. Looks like I am President for Life. Wanted to make sure that the board didn't go commie on me and try to regulate every damn aspect of what I can/cannot do on my own property.
 

DoWhat

Deplorable
PREMO Member
huntr1 said:
I make no bones about it, I AM power hungry! I wanted to be President, and I am. Looks like I am President for Life. Wanted to make sure that the board didn't go commie on me and try to regulate every damn aspect of what I can/cannot do on my own property.
Who approved the barn?
 

Dymphna

Loyalty, Friendship, Love
huntr1 said:
President for Life.
Yeah the life expectancy of the HOA is about 2 more months, I'd say.

It was set up to fail. The dues were too low to do anything, even mow the common area. The terms for changing any covenants are impossible and the enforcement power of the HOA is nil.
 

Dymphna

Loyalty, Friendship, Love
DoWhat said:
Who approved the barn?
The barn complies with all county codes for a shed which doesn't require any approvals. There is no "Architectural Control Commitee" and therefore no rules laid down by the HOA for any type of structures or improvements.
 
DoWhat said:
Who approved the barn?
There are no restrictions in the HOA about construction on your own property. Therefore, I needed permission only from the Big Boss to build it.
 

Cletus_Vandam

New Member
I sat as the President on our Board for approximately 18 months. I was the first President and sat on several meetings during the transfer of the community from the builder/developer to the HOA. The best advice I can give you is the HOA needs to hire an attorney who is very familiar with this type of law. The builder/developer definitely has an attorney on their staff somewhere; after all any paperwork that is signed is going to be generated by him, for him and looking at for his best interests. The HOA will eventually have to bear the cost of an attorney regardless, because there will be circumstances that arise where an attorney will be required (late fees, non-compliance, refusal to adhere to Covenants, etc.). You might as well bring one on board now and get them familiar with things. The few hundred that the HOA spends now, they will be way ahead of the curve when the attorney is really needed.

The Covenants that were formulated before the start of the development is the best and really only place to begin looking at what the developer was required to provide and how the turn-over process is supposed to go. This documents which is recorded at the County recordation level will include the necessary plats and other pertinent information.

Another good thing to have on your side is a management firm to handle the business end of the HOA. They would record meeting minutes, collect HOA fees, issue citations and warning to owners not complying to the requirements, etc. As President of the HOA, the last thing you want to do is be the signature on a letter going to your neighbor telling him that he has too many cars, the wrong color front door, or didn’t get approval to install a screen door… The management firm that our association hired ran I think $90 a month.

I’m guessing that right now the builder/developer is holding all of the funds collected through construction for the HOA. You should be able to access these funds through some type of agreement that the builder pay for things associated with this turn-over from these funds. This will get you access to the money needed to begin hiring a management firm and an attorney.

Something else that should be conducted is an audit of the books from the collection of fees. Depending how long the builder has been running things, this can be an easy task or one that takes weeks… One thing you don’t want to do is find out later that an error in accounting was made prior to the turn-over. Also, I can guarantee it that now, or sometime in the future, you will get an accountant or a want-to-be accountant who will ask the question if a balancing of the books took place before the turn-over.

I may think of some other things later. If I do, I’ll revisit the thread and add them.
 

Dymphna

Loyalty, Friendship, Love
Cletus_Vandam said:
advice I can give you is the HOA needs to hire an attorney who is very familiar with this type of law.
Very good advice and if you can, follow it. However, when the builder sets up the HOA with a maximum income of less than $1500/year and you have to jump through hoops to raise it. And there is no Board authorized to hire an attorney, until AFTER the developer has signed over everything and walked away. There's not much you can do.
 

Cletus_Vandam

New Member
Dymphna said:
Very good advice and if you can, follow it. However, when the builder sets up the HOA with a maximum income of less than $1500/year and you have to jump through hoops to raise it. And there is no Board authorized to hire an attorney, until AFTER the developer has signed over everything and walked away. There's not much you can do.

This brings up some interesting points to consider. If the assocaition is collecting only $1500/year are there any "assets" that require periodic maintenance or replacement after some time? My board/preseident experience was limited to a townhouse neighborhood with a pool, poolhouse, tennis courts, private drives, etc. All of these required preventative maintenance, replacement projections, as well as the typical things like snow removal. Our fees were in the range of about $1400 per year per unit. So I think we might be comparing apples and oranges.

Regardless, I would think that the HOA would need to have a board established of homeowners prior to their being any turn-over from the builder (correct ??). Otherwise, what entity is the builder turning over the development to?

My experience is limited to a development that had been in existance for sometime (seven years +) and was run by the developer as several phases were being completed. But I'm guessing there should be some similarities between the transisions.

On another note: We came very close to buying in a neighborhood that had yearly dues of $15/per house. I never knew what the intent was of this (seems too low to do anything with)... There was one family in the neighborhood who had a fence installed in violation of the covenants and I always wondered how an assocaition with an annual income of a few hundred dollars would go after someone from a legal standpoint. My guess is that you wouldn't be able to get an attorney under retainer for less than $1500.
 
Cletus_Vandam said:
This brings up some interesting points to consider. If the assocaition is collecting only $1500/year are there any "assets" that require periodic maintenance or replacement after some time? My board/preseident experience was limited to a townhouse neighborhood with a pool, poolhouse, tennis courts, private drives, etc. All of these required preventative maintenance, replacement projections, as well as the typical things like snow removal. Our fees were in the range of about $1400 per year per unit. So I think we might be comparing apples and oranges.
In our neighborhood, the HOA owns about 80 acres of property. Most of it is woods. However, there is the area on either side of the entrance road, probably .1 mile, owned by the HOA that has to be maintained (grass cut), plus 10 stormwater mgmt. ponds w/ fences that have to be maintained. You are correct about $1400 not being enough to do anything. We raised the dues to $50.00 per year ($2500 total) last year, and even that is not enough to be able to do much of anything. I am getting ready to spend the bulk of the $$ on rip-rap to repair a washed out hillside at one of the ponds. Part of the problem is that people don't see any evidence that their dues are going towards anything, they don't realize what it costs to send out the newsletter and pay for the 1 streetlight at the entrance every month. We want to do landscaping at the entrance, but without more money, we can't do it. We tried to hire somebody to come in and cut the grass in the common areas, but the cheapest estimate we got was something like $500-1K a month, not gonna happen. It is like pulling teeth to get the homeowners to do their assigned common area maint.

Regardless, I would think that the HOA would need to have a board established of homeowners prior to their being any turn-over from the builder (correct ??). Otherwise, what entity is the builder turning over the development to?
When you buy the house, you are automatically a member of the HOA. I believe that the only thing done at the "handover" meeting was the lawyer needed somebody to physically hand the check for collected dues, plat, list of homeowners, copies of covenants and bylaws and the incorporation documents. The next meeting is when we elected the board.
My experience is limited to a development that had been in existance for sometime (seven years +) and was run by the developer as several phases were being completed. But I'm guessing there should be some similarities between the transisions.
That's the way it works in neighborhoods where the HOA is designed to succeed, not fail, as it was in our neighborhood. The smaller the 'hood, the harder it is to have a functioning HOA.
On another note: We came very close to buying in a neighborhood that had yearly dues of $15/per house. I never knew what the intent was of this (seems too low to do anything with)... There was one family in the neighborhood who had a fence installed in violation of the covenants and I always wondered how an assocaition with an annual income of a few hundred dollars would go after someone from a legal standpoint. My guess is that you wouldn't be able to get an attorney under retainer for less than $1500.
You are correct, $15 per house isn't enough to do crap with. The lawyer that we found, is willing to do stuff for us, on a per project basis, no retainer required. So far, we haven't had to have a lawyer.
 
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