Here is the text which presents the candidates record on the Second Amendment.
NRA endorses Bush
- Thread starter 2ndAmendment
- Start date
anyway!
Many RINOs (Republican In Name Only) including Arnold, who just signed a gun ban in California, don't stand up for our Second Amendment rights. They probably have never read the Constitution, don't understand the history behind it, and have no concept of the thought process that went into its writing.ylexot said:
Kerry talks about AK-47s without even knowing what an AK-47 is. You have to have a special license (shouldn't have to) to have any fully automatic weapon; an AK-47 is fully automatic, so it is already regulated.
Pete
Repete
Especially last night when John Kerry launched into his sappy story about when he was hunting with some Sheriff in Wisconson a few weeks ago and he pointed to a house and said "We did a drug raid on that house last week and they found an AK-47 inside."ylexot said:
Well since the assault weapons ban just expired, and the hunting trip was a few weeks ago, it seems to me that the person (criminal) in the house selling drugs must have ignored the assault weapons ban because he had an AK-47 before the ban expired.
Why didn't Bush jam that down his throat?
That is true.ylexot said:
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Bruzilla
Guest
2ndAmendment said:
Actually... an AK-47 is a selective fire weapon. It is not "fully automatic."
With a reported rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute I would say it is close enough to full automatic as one needs to ever get. http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models/ka50.htmlBruzilla said:
Nope. AK-47 is select fire with one position being full auto. The SK-47 is the sport version which is semi-auto. The relationship is similar to the M-16 and the AR-15.Bruzilla said:
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/akru/ak47.html
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Bruzilla
Guest
Sorry to be such a stickler for correct terminology, but the incorrect use of terms leads to a lot of misunderstandings.
A semi-auto weapon is one that fires and chambers a single round, without any manual operation of the action, for each time the trigger is pulled. This includes civilian AR-15s, M-1As, AKMs, M-1 Carbines, M-1 Garands, etc. A selective-fire weapon is one that can be fired in a semi-automatic, automatic, or burst mode. This includes USAF AR-15s, M-16s, M-14s, AK-47/74, M-2s, etc. Automatic weapons (there really is no "fully" automatic term, except from gun control types) fire until the trigger is released. These weapons have been out of vogue since WWII, and are primarily limited to heavy automatic weapons (M1934, M2, MG-42 etc.) and submachine guns (more correctly termed as machine pistols, as they were designed to fire pistol ammunition at a high rate and large numbers, such as the M-3, MP-38/40, Sten guns, etc.)
Also, assault weapons are properly defined as selective-fire weapons that fire sub-munitions. This would be any selective-fire weapon that fires a 5.56 NATO/.223, 7.62X39, 7.92X33K, etc., round. Main Battle Rifles (MBRs) are weapons that are designed to fire, manually, semi-automatically, or selective fire, a full-size round such as an 8MM, 30.06, .308/7.62X54, .303, etc., and includes the M-1 Garand, M-14, Springfield 1903, Mauser 98, FN/FAL, etc.
A semi-auto weapon is one that fires and chambers a single round, without any manual operation of the action, for each time the trigger is pulled. This includes civilian AR-15s, M-1As, AKMs, M-1 Carbines, M-1 Garands, etc. A selective-fire weapon is one that can be fired in a semi-automatic, automatic, or burst mode. This includes USAF AR-15s, M-16s, M-14s, AK-47/74, M-2s, etc. Automatic weapons (there really is no "fully" automatic term, except from gun control types) fire until the trigger is released. These weapons have been out of vogue since WWII, and are primarily limited to heavy automatic weapons (M1934, M2, MG-42 etc.) and submachine guns (more correctly termed as machine pistols, as they were designed to fire pistol ammunition at a high rate and large numbers, such as the M-3, MP-38/40, Sten guns, etc.)
Also, assault weapons are properly defined as selective-fire weapons that fire sub-munitions. This would be any selective-fire weapon that fires a 5.56 NATO/.223, 7.62X39, 7.92X33K, etc., round. Main Battle Rifles (MBRs) are weapons that are designed to fire, manually, semi-automatically, or selective fire, a full-size round such as an 8MM, 30.06, .308/7.62X54, .303, etc., and includes the M-1 Garand, M-14, Springfield 1903, Mauser 98, FN/FAL, etc.
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NSS.Bruzilla said:
Definition from the U.S. Army: "Submunition. Any munition that, to perform its task, separates from a parent munition."
Show me where ANY AR-15 (USAF or otherwise is capable of full auto).
Select fire means being able to select mode of fire. The select modes for an AR-15 and a SK-47 are safe or semi-auto. The select modes for an AK-47 and a M-16 are safe, semi-auto, full auto (burst for later years of M-16). There is a modification for the M-16 for four modes of fire; safe, semi, burst, and full.
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And the A in AR-15 stands for Armalite not assault. Armalite was the originator of the Armalite Rifle design 15 (AR-15). The same design is used by Bushmaster and other manufacturers. Colt used to use the same design but then changed the size of the front pin that connects the lower to the upper (for that reason alone, I would not buy a Colt).
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Bruzilla
Guest
The AR-15 was based on the AR-10 that Eugene Stoner developed for Armalite and that lost out in MBR competition to the M-14. The AR-10, like the AR-15, was a selective-fire weapon when tested by the military. The Army had no interest in the AR-15 (having just adopted the M-14). The story as I remember it was that Stoner had a big BBQ going, and one of his guests was USAF General Curtis LeMay, who was the head of SAC. Stoner told LeMay about the light-weight AR-15 and let LeMay test fire it at the BBQ (the BBQ story may be legend, but fact is that Stoner made a direct sale to LeMay.) LeMay was very impressed and ordered a bunch of them for use by SAC security sentries. These were, and still are, selective-fire AR-15s. If you go by most USAF bases today you'll still see them in use.
The M-16 designation was not applied until the Army adopted the rifle later. Also, I didn't mean to imply that AR meant Assault Rifle. The AR in both the AR-15 and the AR-10 stand for Armalite Rifle. Since LeMay did a direct purchase of his AR-15 rifles, and bypassed standard practice for adopting weapons (as he often did, SAC could do just about anything back then), the rifles entered service as the AR-15. The Army did follow procedures, which is why the rifle lost the AR-15 designator and picked up the model-16 (M-16) nomenclature.
The M-16 designation was not applied until the Army adopted the rifle later. Also, I didn't mean to imply that AR meant Assault Rifle. The AR in both the AR-15 and the AR-10 stand for Armalite Rifle. Since LeMay did a direct purchase of his AR-15 rifles, and bypassed standard practice for adopting weapons (as he often did, SAC could do just about anything back then), the rifles entered service as the AR-15. The Army did follow procedures, which is why the rifle lost the AR-15 designator and picked up the model-16 (M-16) nomenclature.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Bru and 2nd, your discussion about guns makes a good point that gun-control advocates seem to miss. In their minds, most "gun nuts" are right-wing terrorists holed up in the Idaho panhandle plotting to wage war on blacks and Jews. That's not it at all. You guys sound no different than gearheads talking about their classic hot rods, or techheads contrasting Pentium versus AMD. I can relate, since I love tech gadgets (except for cell phones). It's probably a guy thing. A man and his gun--it's a beautiful thing.
I stand corrected, at least partially. The AR-15 that LeMay shot was indeed capable of full auto as well as semi-auto fire, but according to the history, these rifles were only prototypes. When the AR-15 went into production, the full auto capability was not included in the production rifles.Bruzilla said:
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Bruzilla
Guest
I fired a USAF AR-15 (and yes... the lower was marked AR-15) in the Azores back in 1983 or so, and it was selective fire.
But again, the 8,000 or so AR-15s that LeMay bought were not U.S. Govie approved weapons, but they were not prototypes either. They were production pieces made to fill the order.
But again, the 8,000 or so AR-15s that LeMay bought were not U.S. Govie approved weapons, but they were not prototypes either. They were production pieces made to fill the order.