Pres. Bush's perspective

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
President Bush's organization released his statement on his faith. I posted the whole thing in Religion http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?t=34662

Here are a couple of excerpts. They explain a lot even if you are not religious yourself.
Politics is a fickle business. Polls change. Today's friend is tomorrow's adversary. People lavish praise and attention. Many times it is genuine; sometimes it is not. Yet I build my life on a foundation that will not shift. My faith frees me. Frees me to put the problem of the moment in proper perspective. Frees me to make decisions that others might not like. Frees me to try to do the right thing, even though it may not poll well... The death penalty is a difficult issue for supporters as well as its opponents. I have a reverence for life; my faith teaches that life is a gift from our Creator. In a perfect world, life is given by God and only taken by God. I hope someday our society will respect life, the full spectrum of life, from the unborn to the elderly. I hope someday unborn children will be protected by law and welcomed in life. I support the death penalty because I believe, if administered swiftly and justly, capital punishment is a deterrent against future violence and will save other innocent lives. Some advocates of life will challenge why I oppose abortion yet support the death penalty. To me, it's the difference between innocence and guilt.
Our sense of personal responsibility has declined dramatically, just as the role and responsibility of the federal government have increased. The changing culture blurred the sharp contrast between right and wrong and created a new standard of conduct: 'If it feels good, do it.' and 'If you've got a problem, blame somebody else'." "Individuals are not responsible for their actions," the new culture has said. "We are all victims of forces beyond our control." We have gone from a culture of sacrifice and saving to a culture obsessed with grabbing all the gusto. We went from accepting responsibility to assigning blame. As government did more and more, individuals were required to do less and less. The new culture said: if people were poor, the government should feed them. If someone had no house, the government should provide one. If criminals are not responsible for their acts, then the answers are not prisons, but social programs.... "For our culture to change, it must change one heart, one soul, and one conscience at a time. Government can spend money, but it cannot put hope in our hearts or a sense of purpose in our lives."... "But government should welcome the active involvement of people who are following a religious imperative to love their neighbors through after school programs, child care, rug treatment, maternity group homes, and a range of other services. Supporting these men and women - the soldiers in the armies of compassion - is the next bold step of welfare reform, because I know that changing hearts will change our entire society."
 
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UrbanPancake

Right=Wrong/Left=Right
Bush doesn't let his faith guide him. I believe Bush is genuine about his faith. But I don't believe his policy's reflect his faith. His policy's benefit the rich, and corporate greedy. He just sprinkles his "religion over it like salt" to give them some credibility. That's just wrong if you ask me. He buys the religious vote with deceit, and he gets away with it.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
UrbanPancake said:
Bush doesn't let his faith guide him. I believe Bush is genuine about his faith. But I don't believe his policy's reflect his faith. His policy's benefit the rich, and corporate greedy. He just sprinkles his "religion over it like salt" to give them some credibility. That's just wrong if you ask me. He buys the religious vote with deceit, and he gets away with it.
Your boy Kerry is the one that does not live his faith. He quotes "faith without works is dead" yet he says his faith is against abortion, but he is in favor of choice (duh - abortion). He does not believe in homosexuality, but he is for rewarding homosexual behavior. Kerry is the one that does not live his faith. His works show his true belief.
 

J.South

Let's get drunk
Really faith shouldnt even be envolved in politics at all. Ive met more honorable people at bars than at some churchs
 

Rapture Man

New Member
That's why you've got to look to God, not to people. All of us - "religious" or not - fall short of His glory.

That fact murder is wrong is found in the Ten Commandments... should we shy away from penalizing murder just because it might be construed as a Judeo-Christian notion?
 

willie

Well-Known Member
J.South said:
Really faith shouldnt even be envolved in politics at all. Ive met more honorable people at bars than at some churchs
Never been to church, huh?
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
J.South said:
Really faith shouldnt even be envolved in politics at all. Ive met more honorable people at bars than at some churchs
Didn't your teachers teach you that spelling and punctuation count? Faith is involved in everything. It may not be faith in God, but it is faith in something.

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY
 

jlabsher

Sorry about that chief.
Are we voting for Pope or President? Go to SOVA instead of SOMD with all the bible thumping, Jerry Falwell & Pat Robertson would love to have you.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
jlab...

...I'm curious what you think about Kerry's decision of late to make his faith very prominent to his campaign?

Do you have any concerns that his belief in what some might describe as a boogey man may adversely affect his decisions as CIC?
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
jlabsher said:
Are we voting for Pope or President? Go to SOVA instead of SOMD with all the bible thumping, Jerry Falwell & Pat Robertson would love to have you.
I think that's going too far. There's nothing wrong with a President who believes that there is always something greater than himself or herself. But I do have a problem when the President claims that God wanted him to be President and that God speaks through him. The first sounds too much like a political endorsement, and the second sound incredibly arrogant.
 

tlatchaw

Not dead yet.
J.South said:
Really faith shouldnt even be envolved in politics at all. Ive met more honorable people at bars than at some churchs

Going to church does not make you a person of faith. It helps, but I think we all know that faith is express through your heart and soul, not just by going to church on Sunday.

In short, I believe you. But I also believe that your statement is irrelevant.
 

tlatchaw

Not dead yet.
Tonio said:
I think that's going too far. There's nothing wrong with a President who believes that there is always something greater than himself or herself. But I do have a problem when the President claims that God wanted him to be President and that God speaks through him. The first sounds too much like a political endorsement, and the second sound incredibly arrogant.

Agreed, but you're talking to good ol' jlabsher here and he's expressed his anti-christian thoughts many times here before, so I'm sure you made no impact on him.
 

jlabsher

Sorry about that chief.
Larry Gude said:
...I'm curious what you think about Kerry's decision of late to make his faith very prominent to his campaign?

Do you have any concerns that his belief in what some might describe as a boogey man may adversely affect his decisions as CIC?

From what I have seen attending services at both catholic as well as protestant (even fundamentalistic) churches, the catholics are much more tolerant and--dare I say it---liberal in their belief and acceptance. (The vatican may not be, but the congregations are). Most fundamentalistic religions have a track record of being divisive, intolerant and downright dangerous.

So, to answer your question, I would take a moderate catholic over a pious protestant who borders on the fundamentalistic any day.

And from what I know and see, both candidates are now promising anything, saying anything and accusing their opponents of eating babies. W has made his faith a major point of this as well as the last campaign too, but he never goes to church. It is a shame that politicians whore out religion to the extent they do, but it has always been that way in this and other countries, and will never change.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
I thought this quote was appropriate to the thread:
"The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:301, Papers 2:546
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Good quote, Ylexot.

You know, I thought I saw a car with a "YLEXOT" license plate the other day.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
J.South said:
Really faith shouldnt even be envolved in politics at all. Ive met more honorable people at bars than at some churchs
Stop the press - I agree with J.South! Although I would say religion shouldn't be involved in politics, not faith. Someone has a sig line that says something sarcastic about how having a country run by a religious leader works so well in other countries. And I agree with that.

But I don't think Bush takes it too far. He's a religious man and that's fine. He takes his faith in God seriously and that's great, too. Our Constitution is set up so there's room for dissent. Bush has always been upfront that he's a born-again Christian and finds comfort in prayer. I have no problem with that. If he prays and finds answers, to me that's no different than any other President listening to the voices in his head.

Now John Kerry has decided he wants a piece of that Christian pie as well, and it's not flying with him because he has a voting record that makes a mockery of his Catholic teachings. He's trying to be like Bill Clinton, hanging out at black churches and mixing with folk, pandering to them for their vote. This worked for Clinton because he looked completely at home singing gospel and enjoying the sermon, talking to everyone in the place. Kerry stands out like a turd on a wedding cake - that tight, uncomfortable smile that says, "Get me out of here". Bill Clinton had black friends - the only black people Kerry's ever seen off the campaign trail are the cleaning staff at his mansions.

But I digress. Bush seems sincere in his beliefs and he hasn't surrounded himself with the Christian Coalition as his cabinet members. John Kerry's newfound religion is just a silly attempt at garnering votes. You can tell by the way he talks about it - "I was an alter boy", "We're all God's children".
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Kerry's religious pandering bugs me, too. Just not as much as Bush's apparent Messiah complex. What Kerry is doing is simple hypocrisy, and I'm not surprised by people in power saying one thing and doing another. But what Bush is doing is scary. When people believe God is on their side, they believe that any action is justified.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Tonio said:
When people believe God is on their side, they believe that any action is justified.
That's not true. You're basing that on the extremist Muslims that think God wants them to kill everyone. Christians live by a different doctrine.

And I don't think Bush has a "Messiah complex" just because he believes in God and prays. That's something the liberal screwballs say to try and make you think Bush is the Christian version of Osama bin Laden.

Bush could be Jerry Fallwell and he STILL wouldn't be allowed to get in the Oval Office and run amok. Our form of government has a process in place to prevent a President from having complete and total power - it's called "Checks and Balances". It's like that Constitutional amendment to outlaw gay marriage - anyone with any sense knew that wasn't going to pass the House and Senate.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
vraiblonde said:
And I don't think Bush has a "Messiah complex" just because he believes in God and prays.
There's a hell of a lot more to it than that. Bush is on record as saying he believes God chose him to be president and that God speaks through him.
 
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