Proudly Gay and Ordained?

trisha

New Member
With all the publicity about gay marriage, I ask what's the deal on some religions relaxing about ordained gays and lesbians? Is this something you agree or disagree about?
 
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Railroad

Routinely Derailed
trisha said:
With all the publicity about gay marriage, I ask what's the deal on some religions relaxing about ordained gays and lesbians? Is this something you agree or disagree about?
Homosexuality and lesbianism are an abomination in the eyes of God. Neither the marriages nor the "clergy" should be accepted by any Chrisitan religion.

Welcome aboard, BTW.
 

morganj614

New Member
Railroad said:
Homosexuality and lesbianism are an abomination in the eyes of God. Neither the marriages nor the "clergy" should be accepted by any Chrisitan religion.

Welcome aboard, BTW.

God loves everyone. Good morning, BTW.
 

virgovictoria

Tight Pants and Lipstick
PREMO Member
morganj614 said:
God loves everyone. Good morning, BTW.


For the most part, unless angered, I try not to mix into politics or religion. I won't resign myself to a label or strict adherence to one path of thinking. I feel that each of us believes or disbelieves in a God, Gods, god, a higher power of powers that are greater than we humans are... Individuals are spiritual, individuals are religious. Some are not. Some have faith. Some can believe that there lies a goodness in themselves for the sake of humanity and/or for the hopes of eternal peace or because of Christianity and what God gave for our sins.

With that said, regardless of a person's sexuality, if he or she wants to carry a message of God, a higher power, of Christianity, of spirituality, of peace and serenity then openness of heart and mind and acceptance should be greater than anything else. Willingness, forgiveness, peace and unity is what I feel it is all about. If you don't feel that you can be comfortable with a homosexual sharing the gospel, then don't attend their church. Just don't hinder their desire to spread the message.

As always, my opinion.
 

morganj614

New Member
virgovictoria said:
For the most part, unless angered, I try not to mix into politics or religion. I won't resign myself to a label or strict adherence to one path of thinking. I feel that each of us believes or disbelieves in a God, Gods, god, a higher power of powers that are greater than we humans are... Individuals are spiritual, individuals are religious. Some are not. Some have faith. Some can believe that there lies a goodness in themselves for the sake of humanity and/or for the hopes of eternal peace or because of Christianity and what God gave for our sins.

With that said, regardless of a person's sexuality, if he or she wants to carry a message of God, a higher power, of Christianity, of spirituality, of peace and serenity then openness of heart and mind and acceptance should be greater than anything else. Willingness, forgiveness, peace and unity is what I feel it is all about. If you don't feel that you can be comfortable with a homosexual sharing the gospel, then don't attend their church. Just don't hinder their desire to spread the message.

As always, my opinion.

Well said, I don't plan on argueing and God, Buddha, Allah et al., they do not put conditions on love.
 

Railroad

Routinely Derailed
morganj614 said:
God loves everyone. Good morning, BTW.
True statement - He loves everyone, including the worst of the worst, but that doesn't mean He accepts our sins.
 

morganj614

New Member
Railroad said:
True statement - He loves everyone, including the worst of the worst, but that doesn't mean He accepts our sins.

So I am going to hell for all my sins? According to the way I was brought up, all sins are forgiven as we are born of sin. Anyway, I am outta this thread, I hate to think there are conditions on one's spirituality or holiness. Have a beautiful day! :diva:
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
virgovictoria said:
If you don't feel that you can be comfortable with a homosexual sharing the gospel, then don't attend their church.
Seems simple, doesn't it?

It's like - what was it, the Episcopalians? - that ordained that gay minister and everybody was up in arms. But the Episcopalian powers that be approved it. So if you, as a member of the Episcopalian faith, don't like it, the logical thing to do would be change religious persuasions, because you are no longer at one with that brand of Christianity.
 

Railroad

Routinely Derailed
vraiblonde said:
Seems simple, doesn't it?

It's like - what was it, the Episcopalians? - that ordained that gay minister and everybody was up in arms. But the Episcopalian powers that be approved it. So if you, as a member of the Episcopalian faith, don't like it, the logical thing to do would be change religious persuasions, because you are no longer at one with that brand of Christianity.
Right answer.

But the question was asking me how I felt about gay clergy, and I answered it truthfully. There is a Bible verse that explicitly says that gay sexuality is an abomination before the Lord, but I can't find it at the moment.

You don't think I'm trying to change anyone's position on this, do you? The law of averages says that sooner or later in life, someone will ask a question and not like the answer. I can't help that.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
morganj614 said:
So I am going to hell for all my sins? According to the way I was brought up, all sins are forgiven as we are born of sin. Anyway, I am outta this thread, I hate to think there are conditions on one's spirituality or holiness. Have a beautiful day! :diva:
I will not speak to other religions. I live a way of life which is a relationship with Jesus. I am a Christian. If you are a Christian, then you must believe the word of God, the Bible. If you don't, then what do you place your faith on? That is a rhetorical question. That said, the Bible states that homosexual acts are an abomination to God. Read the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis 18:20 - 19:29. These entire cities were destroyed by God for the sin of homosexual behavior.

God loves everyone, but He hates sin. Period. You can be forgiven all your sins, but that requires repentance. True repentance is the turning away from all sin including sexual sin. It doesn't matter whether in human wisdom people don't believe that there are conditions on salvation; the Bible says there are.
Matthew 7:21-23
<sup id="en-NASB-23338">21</sup>"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. <sup id="en-NASB-23339">22</sup>"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

<sup id="en-NASB-23340">23</sup>"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
This is just one of many places. I used this one since it is the New Testament and is a quote from Y'shua (Jesus.). I do this because many want to dismiss the account of Sodom and Gomorrah as being from the Old Testament. There are references to homosexual behavior being not acceptable in the New Testament as well.


1 Corinthians 6:8-10
<sup id="en-NASB-28476">8</sup>On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. <sup id="en-NASB-28477">9</sup>Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

<sup id="en-NASB-28478">10</sup>nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
vraiblonde said:
Seems simple, doesn't it?

It's like - what was it, the Episcopalians? - that ordained that gay minister and everybody was up in arms. But the Episcopalian powers that be approved it. So if you, as a member of the Episcopalian faith, don't like it, the logical thing to do would be change religious persuasions, because you are no longer at one with that brand of Christianity.
Or, as many have done, reject the Episcopal organization and consider it an anathema. The Bible also confirms that as we get closer to the last day, many will fall away from the Truth. The Episcopal organization has done just that by rejecting God's word for political correctness.
 

virgovictoria

Tight Pants and Lipstick
PREMO Member
2ndAmendment said:
I will not speak to other religions. I live a way of life which is a relationship with Jesus. I am a Christian. If you are a Christian, then you must believe the word of God, the Bible. If you don't, then what do you place your faith on? That is a rhetorical question. That said, the Bible states that homosexual acts are an abomination to God. Read the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis 18:20 - 19:29. These entire cities were destroyed by God for the sin of homosexual behavior.

God loves everyone, but He hates sin. Period. You can be forgiven all your sins, but that requires repentance. True repentance is the turning away from all sin including sexual sin. It doesn't matter whether in human wisdom people don't believe that there are conditions on salvation; the Bible says there are.
This is just one of many places. I used this one since it is the New Testament and is a quote from Y'shua (Jesus.). I do this because many want to dismiss the account of Sodom and Gomorrah as being from the Old Testament. There are references to homosexual behavior being not acceptable in the New Testament as well.


Seems pretty clear cut to me.


I do not know Bible verse, but my experience has been that it is the desire of the Lord to spread the word of the Lord. If the message can be reached by more people via a person they are comfortable with - NOT based on their homosexuality, but, just so happens to be homosexual in addition to being religious, wouldn't the greater good lie in spreading the message? To reach more people and spread faith?
 

ceo_pte

New Member
Railroad said:
Homosexuality and lesbianism are an abomination in the eyes of God. Neither the marriages nor the "clergy" should be accepted by any Chrisitan religion.

Welcome aboard, BTW.


:yeahthat:

But I do think the church & people should treat them with love. Allow them to attend services, etc....
 

Railroad

Routinely Derailed
Leviticus chapter 18 (excerpt)

20: And you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, and defile yourself with her.
21: You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
22: You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
23: And you shall not lie with any beast and defile yourself with it, neither shall any woman give herself to a beast to lie with it: it is perversion.
24: "Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am casting out before you defiled themselves;

Thanks, Penn!
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Let me point out that Leviticus is in the Old Testament. If you are going to take the teachings in the Old Testament as literal gospel, then you must also believe that a woman is unclean for 40 days after having a baby - longer if that baby is a girl. You must also believe that a rape victim must marry her attacker and that women should be stoned to death for pre-marital sex.

No picking and choosing, please.
 
D

dems4me

Guest
vraiblonde said:
Let me point out that Leviticus is in the Old Testament. If you are going to take the teachings in the Old Testament as literal gospel, then you must also believe that a woman is unclean for 40 days after having a baby - longer if that baby is a girl. You must also believe that a rape victim must marry her attacker and that women should be stoned to death for pre-marital sex.

No picking and choosing, please.

:yeahthat: Those laws were chosen then as a guideline, etc... at the time the earth was sparsely populated and the gay relationships would have stunted the population ... who is to say whether those rules were for that reason or not... God has infinite wisdom and its not up to us to decide why or why not the laws were written that way. BTW, I'd like to see your 4 foot beard too and Amish hat seeings how we are going by the Old Testament.

I think everyone is a sinner, haven’t you realized by now that the Bible has it set up that way? Some people its homosexuality... doesn't mean you are condemned to hell, etc... it just means they are HUMAN and no different than you or I. However its a sexual preference that deviates from the norm so it gets made fun of - just the same as if a kid was born and walked around with 10 arms or something. Things in this world happen for a reason and its not up to us to judge others and decide how this world, that belongs to God should be run.

Homosexuals are human beings just the same as you and me, they have feelings, they cry, they get hurt, they laugh and they also bleed red blood when cut. Stop ostracizing your fellow man. Have you ever talked to gay people and realized alot of these folks are not Christian?? Its not because of the Bible its because of the bashing that goes on by "proclaimed" Christians. Its a cycle of hatred that separates people instead of recognizing the similarities and the commonbond of everyone being a sinner to unite one another. This issue continues to be a divider for them and zealous Christians - that will talk out of both sides of their mouth... one side saying -- Oh no!!! I'm not innocent... I'm a sinner too!!! and then the other side -- Off with your head you sinner gay person you!!! Even the scripture that Railroad quoted -- the word "effiminate" is used... there's alot of men that are like that in this day and age -- that are entirely straight men.

The Biblical fact remains that no matter what man does here on Earth, they will always be a sinner. The Bible is based on sins and the redemption of sins through Jesus Christ. The homosexual should be no more judged than someone that judges others. Both are sinners in the eyes of the Lord. There's is no such thing as half sins or a percentage of wrongness greater in one sin over another - no matter who is commiting it. A sin is a sin. Just the same as a woman is either pregnant or not. The Bible teaches us that we ARE ALL sinners and to accept each other and realize its only through Jesus we receive salvation and redemption for our sins. You can hate the sin, but don't hate the person. Everyone is human and has sins.

Just for one day, I would love to see everyone ostracized by their sin and ridiculed and the worst possible insult - to be called not a Christian because of their sin... just one day, have everyone take a look at their own sins instead of others. Let them have to host parades just to show other people they are indeed human beings and flesh and blood and fallable just the same as the rest of the World and to have a day where they don't feel alienated. Sometimes Christians (and I'm guilty of this two) really do need to walk a mile in someonelse's shoes before passing judgement and then literally hiding behind a Bible and using it as an excuse to hate people. Do you really think Jesus gave Christians a Bible so that they can bludgened those that have different sins than themselves? Or as a means to justify their vile behavior towards their fellow man.

These same "proclaimed" Christians must have also just thrown out the entire chapter about the adulterer that was being stoned and Jesus saying "you without sin, cast the first stone" - NOONE threw any stones and I'll wager my right arm that it wasn't because all them were homosexuals. We are all sinners, the sooner folks accept it the sooner folks will stop passing harsh judgment on their brothers and sisters in Christ. If anything they may need some guidance, and Love (what Jesus taught) not hatred, harassment and ridicule. If you see differently, then I think we have a different Bible, a different Jesus and a different God. JMHO
 
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D

dems4me

Guest
grey block... "04-15-2005 01:24 PM hush up.. "



:killingme: Yet another side of the mouth words are leaking out of... :roflmao:

You guys are TFF!!! :roflmao:
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
virgovictoria said:
I do not know Bible verse, but my experience has been that it is the desire of the Lord to spread the word of the Lord. If the message can be reached by more people via a person they are comfortable with - NOT based on their homosexuality, but, just so happens to be homosexual in addition to being religious, wouldn't the greater good lie in spreading the message? To reach more people and spread faith?
God can use anyone or any experience to reach someone. Does He use sinners? You bet. Does He approve of sin? Emphatically, NO!

Christianity has nothing to do with being religious. It has everything to do with a personal relationship with God. He details what is acceptable and what is not in the Bible. Almost everyone wants and expects to go to heaven, but they don't want to live the way God expects them to to get there. They want God and heaven on their terms not on God's terms. Sorry. It does not work that way. Not my rules, His.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
vraiblonde said:
Let me point out that Leviticus is in the Old Testament. If you are going to take the teachings in the Old Testament as literal gospel, then you must also believe that a woman is unclean for 40 days after having a baby - longer if that baby is a girl. You must also believe that a rape victim must marry her attacker and that women should be stoned to death for pre-marital sex.

No picking and choosing, please.
No picking and choosing. I believe every word of the Bible.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
dems4me said:
:yeahthat: Those laws were chosen then as a guideline, etc...

I think everyone is a sinner, haven’t you realized by now that the Bible has it set up that way? Some people its homosexuality... doesn't mean you are condemned to hell, etc... it just means they are HUMAN and no different than you or I. However its a sexual preference that deviates from the norm so it gets made fun of - just the same as if a kid was born and walked around with 10 arms or something. Things in this world happen for a reason and its not up to us to judge others and decide how this world, that belongs to God should be run. .... JMHO
Sorry Dems, you are wrong.

If you believe the Bible, then I re quote these and it is New Testament (vrai take note).
Matthew 7:21-23


<sup id="en-NASB-23338">21</sup>"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. <sup id="en-NASB-23339">22</sup>"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

<sup id="en-NASB-23340">23</sup>"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
1 Corinthians 6:8-10

<sup id="en-NASB-28476">8</sup>On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. <sup id="en-NASB-28477">9</sup>Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

<sup id="en-NASB-28478">10</sup>nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
"Just Your Humble Opinion" has nothing to do, absolutely no bearing on scripture. If opinion matter instead of the Bible, everyone could do anything they wanted and still be in God's grace. That is not what the Bible says. If you are a Christian, the Bible has to be your final authority on all things spiritual. If it is not, you a fooling yourself.
 
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