The Purpose of Government?
- Thread starter MGKrebs
- Start date
G
giggles04
Guest
Couldn't tell ya... I'm not awake enough to think about this right now
K
Kain99
Guest
Originally, I think the Government was formed to protect.....
Don't ask me what happened.....
Don't ask me what happened.....
And I would suggest...
...that this clearly means protecting minority groups.
Groups in the majority have the power to pass rules that favor themselves, sometimes at the expense of other groups. Government (at least in a democracy or democratic republic) stand as a barrier to prevent this power from being abused.
"Minority" can mean minority in wealth (power), religion, race, and probably other catagories I cannot think of at the moment.
...that this clearly means protecting minority groups.
Groups in the majority have the power to pass rules that favor themselves, sometimes at the expense of other groups. Government (at least in a democracy or democratic republic) stand as a barrier to prevent this power from being abused.
"Minority" can mean minority in wealth (power), religion, race, and probably other catagories I cannot think of at the moment.
H
Heretic
Guest
Yea to hell with the majority of people.
Ken JetmonkeyGood responses.
Maynard, I'm curious what you think is the purpose of government. You said "protecting minority groups" - protecting them from what? They have the same opportunities for success that anyone else in this country does. Don't bother to disagree - I'll just cite you numerous examples of minorities who've made good.
H
Heretic
Guest
As long as its not that top 1% of income earners, that is a minority that we need to come down hard on eh?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Heretic!!!!
...LOL!!!
...LOL!!!
That was pretty good, Heretic.
You are starting to get on my nerves.
Well, some of you seem to believe that we all have equal physical ability, equal mental ability, grow up in equal family situations, etc. As long as you believe this, we cannot agree on "equal opportunity".
As far as protecting "some" at the expense of "others", what do you think the free-market system is all about? Did Ken Lay give a sh*t about his workers? Do businesses generally givs a sh*t about the environment if they aren't made to?
You are starting to get on my nerves.
Well, some of you seem to believe that we all have equal physical ability, equal mental ability, grow up in equal family situations, etc. As long as you believe this, we cannot agree on "equal opportunity".
As far as protecting "some" at the expense of "others", what do you think the free-market system is all about? Did Ken Lay give a sh*t about his workers? Do businesses generally givs a sh*t about the environment if they aren't made to?
H
Heretic
Guest
Re: That was pretty good, Heretic.
1) Ha
2) So are you saying that some groups of people are inferior to other groups of people? That isn't very politically correct. Exactly how competitive does a person have to be to collect garbage, clean hotel rooms, pick up trash along the highway.... I have met some pretty damn stupid people that had much more difficult jobs than those
3) What Ken Lay was doing way breaking the law, why do we need to make more laws if we dont enforce the ones we have. And will making more laws stop people from doing stuff that is already illegal and will land them in jail anyway? Will adding yet another law make them thing again?
Originally posted by MGKrebs
You are starting to get on my nerves.
Well, some of you seem to believe that we all have equal physical ability, equal mental ability, grow up in equal family situations, etc. As long as you believe this, we cannot agree on "equal opportunity".
As far as protecting "some" at the expense of "others", what do you think the free-market system is all about? Did Ken Lay give a sh*t about his workers? Do businesses generally givs a sh*t about the environment if they aren't made to?
1) Ha
2) So are you saying that some groups of people are inferior to other groups of people? That isn't very politically correct. Exactly how competitive does a person have to be to collect garbage, clean hotel rooms, pick up trash along the highway.... I have met some pretty damn stupid people that had much more difficult jobs than those
3) What Ken Lay was doing way breaking the law, why do we need to make more laws if we dont enforce the ones we have. And will making more laws stop people from doing stuff that is already illegal and will land them in jail anyway? Will adding yet another law make them thing again?
Certainly we are not all of equal intelligence, ability, etc. But we do have equal opportunity in this country. How else would you explain the number of handicapped people who are thriving business owners? How else would you explain a Condoleeza Rice or a Michael Jordan? Yes, she's smart and he's talented but not everyone has to be a National Security Advisor or an NBA star.
Two things for you to think about, Maynard:
#1: People who make a lot of money make it possible for others to make money. They employ housekeepers and landscapers, they buy cars and homes, they spread the wealth around already by the very fact that they HAVE it to spread.
#2: If you take away incentive for people to make money by taxing them to death, and they figure "who cares?" and stop trying to financially achieve, where will the money come from to pay for social programs, the military and other government entities - not to mention keep other businesses afloat so THEY can make money and spread it around?
Just about everyone in America can have a job if they want one. Ever walk into a McDonald's and see a mentally retarded person sweeping the floor? They're making money and they're productive. Why can that mentally retarded person get a job and some fully functioning person can't?
Two things for you to think about, Maynard:
#1: People who make a lot of money make it possible for others to make money. They employ housekeepers and landscapers, they buy cars and homes, they spread the wealth around already by the very fact that they HAVE it to spread.
#2: If you take away incentive for people to make money by taxing them to death, and they figure "who cares?" and stop trying to financially achieve, where will the money come from to pay for social programs, the military and other government entities - not to mention keep other businesses afloat so THEY can make money and spread it around?
Just about everyone in America can have a job if they want one. Ever walk into a McDonald's and see a mentally retarded person sweeping the floor? They're making money and they're productive. Why can that mentally retarded person get a job and some fully functioning person can't?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Go Vrai! Go Heretic!
I'll just let you guys speak for me!
...
...
OK. Enough of that!
Krebs, I swear to God, what I hear you saying is that anyone who is successful is/should be responsible for those that are not and that both are absolutes: Winners win. Losers lose.
I don't expect you to shed a tear but "rich" people lose sometimes. Their business fails. They work themselves to death. They get hit by a truck. Conversely, people do escape the ghetto or the hills or the trailer park. Hell, that is (THE?) one thing Clinton gets HUGE credit for: Anyone, ANYONE can become President. I'd just prefer they do it under the same rules I have to follow.
We are the most generous people (Americans) to ever walk this planet. We help people out. I just got done doing my neighbors driveway because he is getting over some cancer crap (and I'm a great guy).
He don't owe me. He's a good neighbor and therefore someone I wish to help.
Our welfare state doesn't expect you to be a good neighbor. It doesn't expect anything because:
That's crap. Every single one of us knows someone dumber than us who ain't making it and someone smarter than us who is. Every single one of us knows someone who we thought was dumber than us but is doing fine and someone who we thought was smarter and is sucking hind tit.
Jeez. You seem to resist the notion of expecting people to overcome. To make THEIR way. To own their own dang life sans some nanny state saying "there, there dummy, eat your government cheese..."
Winning and being "rich" come in a lot of different forms. I know you'd agree $ ain't everything.
The first step is raising the bar. Maybe?
I'll just let you guys speak for me!
...
...
OK. Enough of that!
Krebs, I swear to God, what I hear you saying is that anyone who is successful is/should be responsible for those that are not and that both are absolutes: Winners win. Losers lose.
I don't expect you to shed a tear but "rich" people lose sometimes. Their business fails. They work themselves to death. They get hit by a truck. Conversely, people do escape the ghetto or the hills or the trailer park. Hell, that is (THE?) one thing Clinton gets HUGE credit for: Anyone, ANYONE can become President. I'd just prefer they do it under the same rules I have to follow.
We are the most generous people (Americans) to ever walk this planet. We help people out. I just got done doing my neighbors driveway because he is getting over some cancer crap (and I'm a great guy).
He don't owe me. He's a good neighbor and therefore someone I wish to help.
Our welfare state doesn't expect you to be a good neighbor. It doesn't expect anything because:
That's crap. Every single one of us knows someone dumber than us who ain't making it and someone smarter than us who is. Every single one of us knows someone who we thought was dumber than us but is doing fine and someone who we thought was smarter and is sucking hind tit.
Jeez. You seem to resist the notion of expecting people to overcome. To make THEIR way. To own their own dang life sans some nanny state saying "there, there dummy, eat your government cheese..."
Winning and being "rich" come in a lot of different forms. I know you'd agree $ ain't everything.
The first step is raising the bar. Maybe?
Whatever.
We'll see.
We are NOT the most generous people ever. We're not even the most generous people now. In fact, we (Americans) are among the worst at giving to charity in the industrialized world. And to top that off, lower income people give a higher percentage of their income to charity than wealthy people do. I'm not even gonna go find the stats, because you don't care and you won't believe them anyway.
Despite the horrible, onerous tax rates on the wealthy, their net worth continues to increase astronomically, while that of poor people continues to fall. You can believe it or not. I don't care anymore.
Heretic- I think we use statistics to "group" people, but when it comes to helping people, we are really talking about individuals. Yes, some individuals are inferior to others.
I don't think you guys ever answered my questions from long ago about what you expect to happen. If we can get welfare all but eliminated, will everybody get a job? Lowering taxes on the wealthy will create an economic boomtime because they will spread the wealth around?
Or what?
I'm just sad again. Time to hit the scotch.
We'll see.
We are NOT the most generous people ever. We're not even the most generous people now. In fact, we (Americans) are among the worst at giving to charity in the industrialized world. And to top that off, lower income people give a higher percentage of their income to charity than wealthy people do. I'm not even gonna go find the stats, because you don't care and you won't believe them anyway.
Despite the horrible, onerous tax rates on the wealthy, their net worth continues to increase astronomically, while that of poor people continues to fall. You can believe it or not. I don't care anymore.
Heretic- I think we use statistics to "group" people, but when it comes to helping people, we are really talking about individuals. Yes, some individuals are inferior to others.
I don't think you guys ever answered my questions from long ago about what you expect to happen. If we can get welfare all but eliminated, will everybody get a job? Lowering taxes on the wealthy will create an economic boomtime because they will spread the wealth around?
Or what?
I'm just sad again. Time to hit the scotch.
Frank
Chairman of the Board
Re: Whatever.
No, go find the stats. You know why I don't believe you? Because you are wrong, dead wrong.
For one thing, stats from the IRS show that *middle-income* Americans give the highest percentage of their income to charity. 3/4ths of all charity comes from the top 1% - it might not bite them hard - but it's a lot of money. American charities *dwarf* the rest of the globe to the tune of around 200 billion annually, most of it from personal private donations. When it comes to time, money, energy and volunteerism, no other nations comes even CLOSE.
Yes, go ahead and produce the numbers, if you don't have to just make them up.
No, go find the stats. You know why I don't believe you? Because you are wrong, dead wrong.
For one thing, stats from the IRS show that *middle-income* Americans give the highest percentage of their income to charity. 3/4ths of all charity comes from the top 1% - it might not bite them hard - but it's a lot of money. American charities *dwarf* the rest of the globe to the tune of around 200 billion annually, most of it from personal private donations. When it comes to time, money, energy and volunteerism, no other nations comes even CLOSE.
Yes, go ahead and produce the numbers, if you don't have to just make them up.
Frank
Chairman of the Board
Ever since Rosie's last two appearances on O'Reilly - I find that I really like her. I don't agree with some of her views but it's clear that she is reasonable, and she has and does change her mind on some things. I'm probably not quite so easily persuaded - I'm pretty stubborn - so I give her points for that. (Vrai is another I admire in this respect - she's changed her view on a few major issues - this is an admirable trait).