Some Thoughts on Affirmative Action

[Bruzilla]

I was watching a Q&A session with author Dinesh D'Souza on CPSAN over the weekend, and he offered some interesting thoughts on affirmative action. When he was asked about not supporting AA, he said that " A white man and a black man apply for a job, the black man is more qualified but the white man gets hired. That is racial discriminination. A white man and a black man apply for a job, the white man is more qualified but the black man gets hired. That is affirmative action. There is really no difference between the two examples as they are both racial discrimination."

He then brough up what I thought was an excellent observation on AA. He said that AA was initially intended to overcome the inequities of years of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow laws, etc., and their effects on Black employment. But in the 70's, other groups (feminists, hispanics, gays, etc.) wanted to hop on the AA bandwagon. At first Black leaders said "You don't deserve AA protection because you were not the victims that we are." Then other leaders noted that the Black population is only about 15%. Siding with the feminists would add another 10%, gays another 10%, Hispanics another 10%. By siding with all of these groups they realized that they could garner enough votes to keep AA going forever, and that's what they did. So the original intent of AA laws has been watered down to where anyone who is not a heterosexual white male is a victim, and that's where AA is running into trouble.

 

[SxyPrincess]

I brought up AA last week and not many people responded. Good luck!

 

[Bruzilla]

Who cares about responses? I'm just sharing the good word.

 

[smcdem]

Until we reach a true equal society that MLK wanted, we need AA.

 

[bknarw]

Originally posted by smcdem
Until we reach a true equal society that MLK wanted, we need AA.

Oh...PUH-Leeze!!!

 

[Tim Mcneil]

bknarw, the conservative president of this nation even concedes that "more must be done." Take a look at cnn.com's political section to see the details of the speech.

 

[Tonio]

This is from Slate.com, about four years ago:

One generalization that can be made about racial profiling--a valid but not perfect generalization, of course--is that conservatives tend to support it, while liberals tend to regard it as racist. In another controversy, the one over affirmative action, the opposite generalization holds: Liberals tend to support it, while conservatives tend to regard it as reverse racism.

And yet affirmative action and racial profiling are essentially the same. Affirmative action amounts to the use of race as a proxy for other, harder-to-discern qualities: racial victimization, poverty, cultural deprivation. Few critics of affirmative action are against compensating victims of specific and proven acts of racial discrimination. And the critics often positively endorse programs giving a special break to people who've overcome economic or cultural disadvantage. What they object to is generalizing these conditions from a person's race. Defenders of affirmative action say, in essence, that as policy-making generalizations go, this one is overwhelmingly valid--and that more justice will be lost than gained by insisting on scientific precision.

Defenders of affirmative action and defenders of racial profiling even resort to the same dodge in defending their cause against colorblind absolutists. They say they, too, think it's wrong for a person to be promoted and/or arrested just because of his or her race. But, they say, it's OK for race to be one factor among many.

 

[bknarw]

Originally posted by Tim Mcneil
bknarw, the conservative president of this nation even concedes that "more must be done." Take a look at cnn.com's political section to see the details of the speech.

Speaking only from limiited personal experience, our minorities are general as biased as anyone.
And even if "more must be done", the speech may as well have said "I have a pipe dream".

 

[Tim Mcneil]

You are right, prejudice runs on that side too. That is why historically black colleges also provide minority scholarships to whites. A couple of my cousins attended UMD-Eastern Shore as students on a minority scholarship.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Tim Mcneil
You are right, prejudice runs on that side too. That is why historically black colleges also provide minority scholarships to whites. A couple of my cousins attended UMD-Eastern Shore as students on a minority scholarship.

Tim, do they give them extra points as well? If so, how do the rest of the students feel about that?

 

[MGKrebs]

What's the point vrai? You're just fishing for reasons to justify your belief that AA is uneccessary and wrong. You already ignore all the reasons why AA SHOULD still exist, so stop pretending you are being thoughtful and objective.

 

[Tim Mcneil]

I don't know about a points system but almost all of the white applicants to historically black universities are accepted. Why is this? Because our black universities understand that the education of blacks is aided through diversity and the viewpoint of persons from another race. The blacks can practice AA but us whites can't huh?

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by Tim Mcneil
I don't know about a points system but almost all of the white applicants to historically black universities are accepted. Why is this? Because our black universities understand that the education of blacks is aided through diversity and the viewpoint of persons from another race. The blacks can practice AA but us whites can't huh?

Ever thank that they might get more money by opening their doors.

 

[bknarw]

Originally posted by Tim Mcneil
I don't know about a points system but almost all of the white applicants to historically black universities are accepted. Why is this? Because our black universities understand that the education of blacks is aided through diversity and the viewpoint of persons from another race. The blacks can practice AA but us whites can't huh?

I'm calling BS on that, too!

Historically black universities are rarely FULL; that's why almost all white applicants are accepted.

 

[vraiblonde]

Same reason all-female colleges had to go co-ed - they needed the dough. Has nothing to do with "diversity" - the students shaved their heads and went crazy when the colleges decided to admit men.

Originally posted by MGKrebs
so stop pretending you are being thoughtful and objective.

All I did was ask a question - sheesh!

 

[Larry Gude]

Richard Cohen

Richard tends to be a "reflex" liberal most of the time, but he has shown his ability to think on occasion, especially when it comes to some of the more repugnant attacks on Israel from people like Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan.

He's put on his thinking cap again on the topic of this here SOMD Forums thread:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19635-2003Jan20.html

I think it's nice to give credit where it is due.

Good work, Richard.

 

[Bruzilla]

I equate AA with taxes and other Federal programs that yield a benefit to someone. Once they are in place no one ever wants them to go away, even long after the original need is gone.

I think there was a need for AA in the 60's, 70's, and into the 80's. But after that, the job and school market were integrated enough to where the need for AA was effectively nill. AA exists today as a crutch for minorities to lean on. Does racisim exist? Yes... on both sides. Does everyone get an even shake? No, and there will never come a time when everyone does get an even shake. That's just the non-Communist world that we live in.

I also disapprove of AA because it's the only part of the American legal system that awards damages to people who are not the ones who suffered, and punishes people who were not responsible for the offense. That's not the way things are supposed to happen in the USA.