A Person's Liberal Background

demsformd

New Member
This is gonna be a long post :biggrin: I just wanna tell everyone here why I am liberal and why I still feel so ardently about my views today. I also wanna hear from all of you about why you are your ideology.

I grew up here in the 7th district on a tobacco farm. I lived a great childhood in which I learned the importance of a good work ethic and the importance of help when one is down. My house did not have electricity until 5 years before I was born (which was 1942, damn I'm old). The only reason that this occurred was due to the Tennessee Valley Authority - one of those great government programs that progressive liberals devised and conservatives fought against. The market here was not profittable for power companies and thus the rural areas of many parts of America were left in the dark due to the greed of the market. It is fine for the market to be greedy, but when the market cannot deliver, I believe that the government should provide. In the 1960s there were several droughts that crippled the corn corp that we harvested. Thankfully the government was there to provide low-interest loans to ensure that my family could stay afloat during our time of need. My family farm still functions today with the help of subsidies and drought relief funds. The farm is as prosperous as ever and I often think that my brother makes more money than I do.

While I loved the farm, I just was not cut out for the farm life. That was my brother's department...Instead, I had the brains and thus my family sent me away to Berkeley. There was no way that my family could afford to pay the tuition so I was able to take out student loans from none other than the federal government. Of course, that was not enough to pay all of Berkeley's tuition, so I had to work as a bartender, a law office clerk, and I always got a piece of the action from the tobacco back home since I worked so hard since I was 8 in the fields. The government once again provided me with a safety-net and a supplement to ensure that my education continued.

My other brother John served in Vietnam and was injured in combat. He was sent back home without his legs or an arm in 1966. This was a seriously terrible time for my family and we could not afford the medical bills that would be required to care for John. But once again, the government was there to help us in our time of dire need. The incident with my brother also created my opposition to the War in Vietnam. I became involved with CALCAV, a religious organization that peacefully protested against Vietnam. Martin Luther King was the chairman of this group and I am proud to say that I had the opportunity to meet that great man in 1967. Peace is the only way that I can see after I saw my older brother John, an athlete, maimed. I just cannot allow myself to send other families' sons and brothers to die in a warrantless conflict such as the one that may occur in Iraq right now.

I grew up here when racism was widespread. I lived in a society that had blacks on one side and whites on the other. I had to live with a father that referred to blacks as coons and the n-word. Segregation was still basically practiced here in the 1970s as well as throughout the South. I just cannot see how twenty years after that, everything concerning race relations is fine. No, no, white people are not racist anymore, trust me, is the view of many conservatives, which was the ideology that defended segregation during the 1900s. I just cannot accept that view especially from people that subscribe to the ideology that attacked the Negro for wanted to swim in the same pools and go to the same schools as whites. In this nation we need Affirmative Action to ensure that racism does not take hold again. It does successfully combine merit with ending past discrimination. Under AA, when people are of two different races or genders and everything else is on an equal basis, the minority or woman is hired. That is not a quota and that is fairness to minorities.

I hold an idealistic belief in helping the poor. Society must attempt to make all members of it productive. Yes, welfare does create dependency in some cases and yes it is abused often, but think about the millions of success stories that do not reach the newspapers or the congressional ledger. We need to reform welfare into a workfare but we cannot completely disband it. Recipients should work 40 hours a week and they should receive credits and the states should have more jurisdiction on the matter. But the program has a fundamentally noble goal that is to help those in poverty. That is a goal that we cannot stop pursuing.

In summary, I am liberal because the government's aid has made my family's farm strong and has helped us during our greatest times of need. It helped me go from being a tobacco farmer to a corporate lawyer and partner of one of DC's largest firms. I believe that racism is an epidemic that has not been halted yet and it will take years and generations more to do so. And I believe that the poor need our help much more than the corporations do. This is the conscience of a liberal and just my humble opinion.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
:clap: What a wonderful story! I understand perfectly now why you're a liberal. Your family has been on the dole since you were born, keeping a failing family business afloat with tax dollars - makes perfect sense that you'd support that.

Your parents also couldn't afford to send you to a fancy college so they took government money instead of sending you to a less costly local school - makes perfect sense that you'd be all for government "loans". Curious how you reconcile your dependence on tobacco money with the Democrats current anti-smoking zealotry - no wonder you like Al Gore so much, you all have something in common.

You are also an older person so it makes sense that you live in a past that was 30 years ago and can't see the changes that have been made since then. My parents are the same way and I'm sure I will be too.

About your brother coming home from Vietnam with no legs and missing an arm: That's truly tragic and it's sad when young men and women suffer for defending their country. You probably didn't know anyone who was killed in the 9-11 attacks - that would explain why you can't see any reason for military action against terrorists. People typically only think about what affects them directly.

One thing I'm confused about, though:
I had to live with a father that referred to blacks as coons and the n-word.
You've said several times that you are a black man - I think it's HORRIBLE that racism in this country made your father hate his own ethnicity with such venom! Or was your father white? Or am I mistaken and you're not black?
 

demsformd

New Member
I'm not a black man...I am white. I can't think of when I said otherwise.

I support taking action against terrorism vrai, just not in Iraq where there is no link between 9/11 and that nation. Until we establish that Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and intends to use them should we attack. There isn't proof of that yet however. And I hate that too many Americans look at the situation with the ethnocentric idea that our weapons would never be used but there's will.

I find it incredibly offensive that you would attack my family as being on the dole throughout my life. That is wrong and grossly false. How is taking a government loan an instance of abusing the system? We paid all of our loans back and right now, 33% of my income goes to the federal government and I pay it without a grimace. How is taking a college loan such a bad thing? How is that abusing the system? Could I have become a partner of a DC law firm had I attended Frostburg University? My talent was not suited for the schools here. I am sorry that you would cut short your dreams because of money, but I refused. I took loans and I paid them off. That is not living off the dole. And how the hell can you assume that my family's farm is a failing family business? Because we accepted drought funding twice in 30 years? And guess what, I am glad that tobacco companies are coming under attack. Why? In 1964 it was $1.70 for a pound of tobacco when the companies bought it. Today, despite inflation, a pound of tobacco still costs $1.70 a pound. The companies are awful and as a firsthand observer of the business, I understand it and you don't. Don't comment on things that you never experienced.

This is an average American story in that the government helps people. Imagine where you would be without a government safety-net. You say taking loans and using programs dedicated to the increase of the people's stature are being on the dole...I say that it is the American dream.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by demsformd
I'm not a black man...I am white. I can't think of when I said otherwise.

I support taking action against terrorism vrai, just not in Iraq where there is no link between 9/11 and that nation. Until we establish that Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and intends to use them should we attack. There isn't proof of that yet however. And I hate that too many Americans look at the situation with the ethnocentric idea that our weapons would never be used but there's will.

I find it incredibly offensive that you would attack my family as being on the dole throughout my life. That is wrong and grossly false. How is taking a government loan an instance of abusing the system? We paid all of our loans back and right now, 33% of my income goes to the federal government and I pay it without a grimace. How is taking a college loan such a bad thing? How is that abusing the system? Could I have become a partner of a DC law firm had I attended Frostburg University? My talent was not suited for the schools here. I am sorry that you would cut short your dreams because of money, but I refused. I took loans and I paid them off. That is not living off the dole. And how the hell can you assume that my family's farm is a failing family business? Because we accepted drought funding twice in 30 years? And guess what, I am glad that tobacco companies are coming under attack. Why? In 1964 it was $1.70 for a pound of tobacco when the companies bought it. Today, despite inflation, a pound of tobacco still costs $1.70 a pound. The companies are awful and as a firsthand observer of the business, I understand it and you don't. Don't comment on things that you never experienced.

This is an average American story in that the government helps people. Imagine where you would be without a government safety-net. You say taking loans and using programs dedicated to the increase of the people's stature are being on the dole...I say that it is the American dream.
9/11 isn't the only terrorism to have taken place. Continuing to fire upon coalition aircraft is a terroristic act.

Also you did say your family received subsidies beyond the loans. Aren't subsidies another example of a select few getting to the nipple of the Government teat?
 

demsformd

New Member
Originally posted by Ken King
9/11 isn't the only terrorism to have taken place. Continuing to fire upon coalition aircraft is a terroristic act.

Also you did say your family received subsidies beyond the loans. Aren't subsidies another example of a select few getting to the nipple of the Government teat?

I do not see the problem with subsidies (the GOP president doesn't either after he signed the largest increase of farm subsidies into law). They aid farmers during times of need. I am not sure about the exact specifics of what my brother takes in as subsidies but he isn't eligible for much because his farm is quite well-off. I think that he took something in 1995 to experiment with olives here but that attempt was a flop. Subsidies anyway have more of an effect out West on ranches.

The Iraqis consider coalition aircraft flying in their airspace to be terrorism...I don't see how firing on aircraft manned by military personnel is terrorism, which targets innocent civilians.
 

demsformd

New Member
That is not me...During the election, a black associate, Thomas Legget, at my law firm vented to me about Michael Steele being an uncle tom. I told him that I was posting on a local forums site and that the topic of the gubernatorial race had come up. He asked if he could see that and I allowed him to post under my registered name because he did not want to sign up. I am sorry for the misunderstanding here but I am white. I forgot about it until now when you wrote about this.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by demsformd
The Iraqis consider coalition aircraft flying in their airspace to be terrorism...I don't see how firing on aircraft manned by military personnel is terrorism, which targets innocent civilians.
Well, as the No Fly Zones being patrolled by UN sanctioned aircraft are authorized to be there any firing upon them by Iraqi ground forces is terrorism. I guess you don't think the bombing of the USS Cole was terrorism either?
 
H

Heretic

Guest
Ok if shooting at colition planes isnt terrorism because they are military targets, then doesn't that make it an act of war?

Personally I dont think its terrorism either, but an act of war.
 
H

Heretic

Guest
As much as I disagree with demsformds positions sometimes I have to take up for him here. I think that there is nothing wrong with taking student loans as long as either you pay them back, your employer pays them back, or you join some sort of national service that pays them back. I used student loans to pay for most of my college and I went to a state school just 40 miles from my parents house (just about as cheap as a good education gets).

I do think you could have gotten a fine education at the University of Maryland, Morgan State, Capital College, John Hopkins, Georgetown, George Washington, University of Virginia, Virginia Tech and it would have been cheaper. Berkley is an interesting choice, if you wanted to go to California Cal Tech, UCLA, USC or Stanford would have come to my mind first.

I think farm subsidies are necessary sometimes because without them some farms could shut down and no matter how hard you work at your job if there is no food you can still starve. However Im not sure I support tobacco farm subsidies since smoking is mostly a "hobby" and nobody needs to smoke. I really am ticked at the government at going after tobacco companies now (Im not a smoker btw) because nobody ever held a gun to my head and made me smoke, no advertizement ever made me want to smoke a cigarette, and I dont think phallic cartoons would make anyone want to smoke. If you smoke its of your own free will and stupidity. However I do support bans on smoking in public places because I choose not to smoke and if you smoke I have no choice in that matter.

Now as far as me. I grew up the son of a factory worker that was on his own since he was 16 when his father died. My father was also the union president so naturally supported democrats in elections almost exclusively. I went to college in 1992 with a semi-liberal attitude until I saw some very liberal though on campus and thought man these people are nuts. I worked minimum wage jobs, took out student loand and got some money from my parents to pay for my college, living expenses and general spending money. I learned that whining about something only makes you a slave to "the man" and that the only way that you can control your own destiny is through hard work.

After a couple years in a part time job for the school a student supervisor position was open I thought I was a shoe-in because I had the most experience and I simply did a better job than anyone else that worked that job. Well my school had a very agressive "diversity" policy and a minority canidate with less experience (who was also always late for work) got the job. I ended up doing my job and his, his (nonstudent) supervisor basically knew what was going on but couldnt do much about it so he began paying me extra hours to make up the pay differential if I continued to do his job, I just didnt have the title.

I graduated the top 1/4 in my class (within major) and got accepted to grad school and actually got paid for teaching classes and my tuition was covered. I saw the undergraduates that I taught ##### and complain about how hard things were when they really only had to do an hour or two work out of class per week. Some of the students did work hard and did a wonderful job in my class, others didnt.

After getting my masters degree I got a good paying job, worked hard and have gotten four promotions in three years. Now I am paying back my student loans, work on average 60 hours per week and sick of seeing people take government handouts and do nothing to earn them. I also think that I know how to better manage my money then the government (social security).

I have worked with quite a few minority and women workers and found that the ones that worked hard and didn't pay any attention to anyones color or gender get farther in life and are much better at what they do. I believe that because discrimination is illegal that we do not need to put laws into effect that basically assume that buisnesses and such are going to break that law (punish those that are guilty not everyone).

I also believe that murder, assult, etc etc are already illegal and passing hate crime laws just further complicate the system allowing for more abuse of the system. I also think its just as bad if a straight white male gets murdered as a black lesbian woman.

I do not believe that someone that earns 30 million dollars to make a movie is in touch with the average American and has no right to go on TV and whine about government programs for the poor when they are driving a Ferrari, eating $50/lb caviar, and beating up hookers.
 

demsformd

New Member
I think that you have some great points in here Heretic and I agree hard work is the ticket. I chose Berkeley because I had a cousin that taught there and offered me free housing. I fell in love with the campus and political activism there was just outstanding. My family never took subsidies for tobacco, I don't believe that they were available. I think that we got subsidies for corn.

But more and more when I read posts it seems that conservatives immediately look to any person that is of minority race that advances through promotions as not deserving it. That is not the case in many instances, albeit it does occur that way. I just think that if we did not have AA, there would be few minorities in promotions and the such. I don't know...Maybe we should experiment for 5 years without AA and then analyze its good and bad points.

I oppose Social Security privitatization because it reduces benefits and does not offer the safety net that the program is supposed to have. Social Security is to be used in conjuction with pensions, retirement savings, and the such...It is not supposed to be the only asset that one has during retirement. It is the only thing that is certain and it must be kept that way.

It does suck that there are people out there that do nothing and get paid for it. But that is more the exception than the rule...Most people on welfare are only on the rolls for a little more than a year according to the Dept. of Health and HUman Services. Curb the abuse but do not stop law-abidding people from receiving the full benefits that they are entitled to.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Heretic
I think farm subsidies are necessary sometimes because without them some farms could shut down and no matter how hard you work at your job if there is no food you can still starve. However Im not sure I support tobacco farm subsidies since smoking is mostly a "hobby" and nobody needs to smoke. I really am ticked at the government at going after tobacco companies now (Im not a smoker btw) because nobody ever held a gun to my head and made me smoke, no advertizement ever made me want to smoke a cigarette, and I dont think phallic cartoons would make anyone want to smoke. If you smoke its of your own free will and stupidity. However I do support bans on smoking in public places because I choose not to smoke and if you smoke I have no choice in that matter.
So paying someone not to grow a crop (as many subsidies do) is a good thing that you support? You don't support tobacco subsidies, well how about subsidies for the corn farmer whose crop goes to the alcohol industry for production of booze? If smoking is a hobby so isn't drinking.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by demsformd
I oppose Social Security privitatization because it reduces benefits and does not offer the safety net that the program is supposed to have. Social Security is to be used in conjuction with pensions, retirement savings, and the such...It is not supposed to be the only asset that one has during retirement. It is the only thing that is certain and it must be kept that way.
Maybe privatization isn't the ticket but they sure as hell could roll the funds into Government secured stocks (G fund) or something similar to what Federal employee Thrift Savings Plan offers where it would grow at a reasonable rate versus the miniscule growth that the current system offers.
 

demsformd

New Member
You know, Ken that doesn't sound like a bad idea. I haven't heard that idea before...I would like to do some research into that...
 
H

Heretic

Guest
Corn is a difficult on in that respect, I agree that drinking is also a hobby and that nobody needs to do it. However, I do believe that most corn grown is for livestock feed. Ethyl Alcohol does have many uses other than drinking, go check out the paint isle in Lowes.

On a side note some of my friends and I decided to steal a few ears of corn out of a field one day and cook them with some steaks. Man the corn ment for livestock feed tastes like $h1T.
 
H

Heretic

Guest
Demsformd, from your perspective I probably have some very conservative views on AA. I have never seen a hardworking employee that kept their nose clean passed up for promotion regardless of skin color or gender. I have however seen many people promoted that were undeserving as well as people that just weren't liked by the boss that deserved a promotion and passed up.

In general I would rather work with a woman than a man because in general they dont have as many problems accepting that you might be smarter than them even though you are 20 years younger. I have ran into many men at the work place that have a problem accepting that a "kid" knows how to do their job better than them.

About political activism: I had a professor in college that told me that he went to protest ralleys in the 70's to pick up women because he found the liberal ones were more likely to put out and were wilder in bed LOL.
 

Steve

Enjoying life!
Ahhhh bugger! I posted as Steve again! It's ME CHRISTY! :lol:


I do not see the problem with subsidies (the GOP president doesn't either after he signed the largest increase of farm subsidies into law).

Okay Dems you say the GOP is not "for the people" yet GWB just signed the largest increase of farm subsidies into law. Just goes to show the GOP isn't against giving help where it's needed, nor are the American people. What the GOP is against is doling out money to those who refuse to make an effort to help themselves or this country. JMHO.

I'm actually okay with Government subsidies for farmers, or anyone else out there busting their hump. Hard work should be rewarded, and not all jobs that are the lifeblood of this country are even remotely profitable.

Now onto the "war". In theory and ideology, I'm a huge proponent of isolationism. I'd love to bring our military back home, shut down the borders and sit back and watch the world tear itself apart, while we live happily ever after. However, you know as well as I do that doing so is impossible.

I think one thing you don't truly comprehend Dems, is that Conservatives are not "warmongers". We DON'T want to go to war with anyone. We simply understand and accept that war is neccessary at times. We understand that you cannot appease or negotiate with People or Countries that only wish us annihilated. You cannot speak reason or make friends no matter what you do. You have but a few choices. You can sit back and essentially "pay them off" (much like the mafia) and hope they leave you in peace, you can conform to their ideology and become allies in oppression, or you can stand up for yourself and the people you serve and bring down a government and/or an organization of zealots, that if left to thrive will someday be powerful enough to kill or oppress your children and their children for generations.

You can say what you want about this country dems, you can say it's evil and oppressive, but that is merely because NONE of us have ever known true oppression or pure evil in our leaders. None of us has known being rounded up by our government and tortured and murdered because we disagree with our government. We live in a country that values it's people and it's diversity. We may not like each other at times, but we don't settle our differences with each other by genocide.

WE ARE BETTER THAN OTHER COUNTRIES! I simply cannot understand why that shames liberals. :confused:
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
I'm curious DFM - Did your family take the tobaco buyout from the State of Maryland, and now they are growing corn as an alternative crop?

I question this because you mention $1.70/lb for tobacco this year?

You mention that the family farm is doing better than ever, and you wonder if your brother earns more $$$ than you do. I'm wondering if that is because of the tobacco buyout, and what the outlook is when those funds dry up?
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
Originally posted by demsformd
I hold an idealistic belief in helping the poor. Society must attempt to make all members of it productive. Yes, welfare does create dependency in some cases and yes it is abused often, but think about the millions of success stories that do not reach the newspapers or the congressional ledger. We need to reform welfare into a workfare but we cannot completely disband it. Recipients should work 40 hours a week and they should receive credits and the states should have more jurisdiction on the matter. But the program has a fundamentally noble goal that is to help those in poverty.

DFM - you just described a conservatives welfare program. In part, because you said "society must attempt to make all members ... productive." Society is not government. We don't need more government to administer more welfare. We need minimal and reformed government welfare, and then society must do the rest. What we can't have is a government welfare program that creates dependence on the system for a handout rather than a helping hand briefly, when needed.
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by Heretic
As much as I disagree with demsformds positions sometimes I have to take up for him here.

I do not believe that someone that earns 30 million dollars to make a movie is in touch with the average American and has no right to go on TV and whine about government programs for the poor when they are driving a Ferrari, eating $50/lb caviar, and beating up hookers.

Bravo......great post...... :clap: :clap:
 
Top