Presbyterians Think Of Changing 'Father, Son, Holy Spirit'
- Thread starter rack'm
- Start date
In your time, you are seeing this prophesy fulfilled.
Hessian
Well-Known Member
The Old deluder will continue to nibble away at foundations.
I certainly can understand why devout believers feel we must meet the battle: in the court room, in demonstrations, in the media.
Let the compromisers perish in their vanity. May their reliance on "diversity & tolerance" blind them, bind them, and extinquish them.
I certainly can understand why devout believers feel we must meet the battle: in the court room, in demonstrations, in the media.
Let the compromisers perish in their vanity. May their reliance on "diversity & tolerance" blind them, bind them, and extinquish them.
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Some Catholic parishes in North Carolina and elsewhere used the term "creator, redeemer, sanctifier" in the past two decades before the term was expressly forbidden by the Vatican. I, for one, prefer the use of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," but I really do not think that taking gender indifferent terms suggest that doctrine is being changed. The two phrases are still referring to the same entities who perform the same duties and provide the same Truth. It does not matter what they be called.
Changing doctrine would mean removing the divinity of Christ, etc.
Changing doctrine would mean removing the divinity of Christ, etc.
Club'nBabySeals
Where are my pants?
I mean, I can see that they've latched onto some concept of language shifting to not be quite so patriarchal, but the whole "Father, Son" thing is rooted in a specific male person who specifically used masculine terms to address God as "Father" and who made references to himself as "Son" (as did many influencial writings of his followers). The understanding of God as above the label of gender is an important and elusive one--sexism is deeply rooted in many a religious mindset, and the words and practices of worship naturally evolve over time--but this particular phrase (at least in most liturgical contexts I've heard it used) is not some arbitrary sexist supposition, and changing it in many instances subverts some basic "facts" of Christianity. They're just plain wrong, in error, and mistaken.
Tinkerbell
Baby blues
rack'm said:So, I will put you down for a NO on the ballot of "old man, dude and big G"
What about "Daddy-O, Junior and The Spook?"
Club'nBabySeals said:
This is basically my position, but from my viewpoint, I don't see changing the use of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be completely hazardous to religious doctrine. I think the better way to get around this issue is for religions to more fully address and teach why the terminology of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is used. Religion should also seek to explain that God's nature is not completely known to us and that he is not to be thought of in human terms (he is not a male nor a female, he is not a white nor a black) and that Jesus is the human form of God and that he was indeed a man and he referred to his parental figure in Heaven (God) as "Abba" or "Father."
R
residentofcre
Guest
rraley said:
I was at a meeting not long ago. There were various people from the Presbyterian church there and they were talking about "maybe it's wrong to tell people that Jesus is the only way to Heaven". They were trying to be "inclusive".
Before someone thinks I believe something I don't... I want to make this clear...
Jesus in the only way to Heaven.... period.... He said it... I believe it....
I am afraid if people don't hear that Jesus is the only way to Salvation [Heaven] then it will be my fault... and I will be held accountable.... but most of all... I don't want anyone to miss out... Heaven is going to be a great place.... Salvation is already an awesome feeling...
Toxick
Splat
rraley said:
No - it's all nice and PC and well and fuzzy to rename the trinity to mother, child, womb. We can start referring to God as "She" - and refer to Her a "Goddess".
Let's start changing ALL the other stuff that doesn't fit into our modern shiny-happy 'everybody is a beautiful and unique snowflake' society.
rraley said:
Except that this kind of goes against that whole "We were created in his image" bit.
Bustem' Down
Give Peas a Chance
So does God have a bellybutton?Toxick said:
Bustem' Down
Give Peas a Chance
Toxick said:
I basically agree with you, Ms. Tice, but I have some points to add to your position. Christ is indeed the only way towards salvation, in my opinion. The Catholic Church, of which I am a member, states that salvation is necessary through Christ and that knowledge of Christ comes through the Church, which Christ established on earth. Now this interpretation of the Church can mean solely the Roman Catholic Church, or the Body of Christ in the world (i.e., the entire Christian community). I believe that this use of the term "Church" refers to the entire Body of Christ (which is the prevailing opinion of most theologians in the Catholic Church, including Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI).
Furthermore, I believe, as does the Catholic Church, that people can be connected to the Body of Christ unknowingly. In other words, one does not have to profess to be a Christian to receive salvation. They are "unknowingly" connected to the Body of Christ in the world today because of their lifestyles that emphasize compassion and love, especially for the disadvantaged. Such a lifestyle is what Christ taught us to lead in his preaching and endorsing such a lifestyle is the true test of salvation.
So, yes, we do receive salvation through Jesus Christ, who taught us how to lead compassionate lives. It is through this connection to such teachings that humans receive salvation, in my view.
Furthermore, I believe, as does the Catholic Church, that people can be connected to the Body of Christ unknowingly. In other words, one does not have to profess to be a Christian to receive salvation. They are "unknowingly" connected to the Body of Christ in the world today because of their lifestyles that emphasize compassion and love, especially for the disadvantaged. Such a lifestyle is what Christ taught us to lead in his preaching and endorsing such a lifestyle is the true test of salvation.
So, yes, we do receive salvation through Jesus Christ, who taught us how to lead compassionate lives. It is through this connection to such teachings that humans receive salvation, in my view.
Toxick said:
He created us as He saw necessary. He did not create us so that we were all white males, like Him, as people would have said in the past. What I should have said earlier was that God is both man AND woman...he is black AND white, etc. He is formless to our human minds.
And I understand where you're coming from with the whole why don't we change this and this and this so no one can be offended. It can be incredibly pointless and excessive, but what I am trying to say is that it doesn't pariticularly matter how one refers to the Trinity, just that one believes and leads their life as the Trinity as shown us.