What is Islam?

abdulhaqq

New Member
What is Islam? Islam Condemns Terrorism!

Islam means to testify with certainy that there is no god but Allah who is without beginning, end, needs, and partners. He is absolutely dissimilar to His creation. He possesses life, knowledge, will, power, all-sight, all-hearing, and speech.

Due to His infinite mercy and concern for mankind, He has sent prophets (with miracles as proof of their veracity) throughout history to guide mankind (some of whom recieved scripture). This long line of prophets began with Adam and ended with Muhammad (peace be upon them all) who was truthful and trustworthy and his miracle was the Qur'an (the speech of Allah transmitted through the Angel Gabriel).

Muslims affirm the existence of life after death, paradise and hell, and the divine decree.

Since Allah is the Lord and Master of creation, one worship is due to Him and him alone. He has prescribed five daily prayers, fasting in the month of Ramadhan, seasonal charity, and Pilgrimage to the Holy Cities of Makkah and Madinah if one can afford it.
 
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Pete

Repete
Where does the part about blowing up innocent women and children in pizza parlors come in?
 

blacklabman

Well-Known Member
Islam is a religion of the Dark Ages that cannot adjust to the modern world. That is except when it uses the weapons of the modern world to kill the innocents.
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Pete said:
Where does the part about blowing up innocent women and children in pizza parlors come in?

Islam actually condemns the innocent murder of civilians. This is established clearly from Islamic texts such as the Qur'an and also from legal verdicts (fatwas) from scholars.

The Qur'an unequivocally prohibits the murder of innocents:

...whoever kills a soul - unless for a soul[1] or for corruption [done] in the land[2] - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And, whoever saves one, it is as if he had saved mankind entirely." [Qur'an, 5:32]

"Among mankind is he whose speech impresses you in worldly life, and he calls Allah to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the fiercest of opponents. And, when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein, and to destroy crops[7] and lives[8]. And Allah does not love corruption." [Qur'an, 2:204-5]

These verses indicate that wanton destruction and indiscriminate killing are tantamount to working mischief /corruption upon earth.

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Muhammad (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) himself condemned the murder of both civilians and property during warfare:

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman. nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock. save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"


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Book 019, Number 4319 Sahih Muslim:

It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that a woman was found killed in one of the battles fought by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He disapproved of the killing of women and children.


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Book 019, Number 4320:

It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.


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With regards to the prohibition on suicide bombing, there are a plethora of eminent Muslim jurists who have condemned it in very detailed legal verdicts (fatwas):

With regards to Kidnapping and Beheadings:
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4219&CATE=124

"The Hijacked Caravan"
http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com/dox/The_Hijacked_Caravan.pdf

Here is a lengthy verdict that refutes textual references used by terrorists who unfortunately happen to be Muslim:
Fatwa Against The Targeting Of Civilians
http://www.livingislam.org/maa/dcmm_e.html

Various Muslim organizations and governments through out the world have condemned terrorism and have been actively working alongside our government, military, and intelligence agencies in prosecuting terrorists. Muslims all accross the world are on the front lines of the war on terror, as can be evidenced in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

Your claims are weak and infantile.
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
blacklabman said:
Islam is a religion of the Dark Ages that cannot adjust to the modern world. That is except when it uses the weapons of the modern world to kill the innocents.

These are also unsubstantiated claims with absolutely no proof. Only a person of complete ignorance of Islam would make such weak and pathetic claims. I wouldn't be surprised if you've never even explored Islamic theology or jurisprudence at all and base almost all of your opinions on xenophobic, racist, and biased sources.

People shouldn't be honest enough with themselves to look past the hatred espoused by individuals such as yourself and explore Islam independently and judiciously to see if these absurd claims are even true or not. Doing anything less would be intellectually dishonest.

With regards to your second claims about killing innocent civilians, see the post above that contains extensive resources on the condemnation of terrorism.

With regards to your first claim, that Islam cannot adjust to modern life, this is equally absurd and equally reflective of your ignorance of this religion.

On the Claim that "Islam is Medieval, Not Modern"

Fire was discovered almost 4,000 years ago. No one in their right mind would say 'we don't need fire because its from pre-modern era'.

This dichotomy between modernity and traditionalism is completely fictatious.

Firstly, the theory itself is too abstract too apply. When does the modern era begin and when does it end? Is the modern era after the dismantling of the colonial apparatus? If so, then does this mean that our Constitution itself is not considered a 'modern document' and should be abandoned? I would think the reasonable person would conclude no. Even though the Constitution is an ancient document, it holds mechanisms within it adapt to change. These terms 'modernity' and 'traditionalism' are invented terms that are painfully insufficient for describing the complex phenomenon erupting in the Muslim world today. The problems in the Muslim world are not due to a lack of technology and adapting to modern systems of government or economics, the issue is social injustice from internal and external causes. Social injustice is not limited to particular social models. Social injustice can result from modern paradigms just as equally as they can arise from ancient paradigms.

Secondly, and this is the most important reason why claiming that the struggle within the Muslim world is between the forces of modernity and medievialism is absolutely flawed, Islam holds within it the very same legal mechanisms to adapt to new circumstances just like the Constitution. Islam has systematically established dominance ine very corner of the world at different times without abandoning its core tenets by adopting its legal rulings to the particular needs of the people. Through the institution of taqleed, Islam is able to retain a corporate coherency that other religions have been unable to attain (such as Christianity) while the doctrine of ijtehad (independent reasoning) enables Islam to adopt a flexibility that prevents the law from being inefficient and unjust (such as Judaism). When the Muslim community is faced with a novel problem or issue that isn't directly addressed in the primary sources of Islamic jurisprudence, then one can engage in ijtehad or "independent reasoning." Thus, Islamic jurisprudence is constantly being adopted, reviewed, and revised in order to make it adapt to modern circumstances. This shows that Islam as a whole is far from being outdated, but rather, it is transcendant and can subsist throughout the ages and through out history.

Furthermore, the underlying objectives of Islamic jurisprudence are analagous to the objectives underlying Constitutional jurisprudence. For example, the Declaration of Independence establishes three primary objectives for our subsequent Constitutional jurisprudence which is to preserve life, liberty, and property. Islamic jurisprudence recognizes that the underlying objectives of the laws is the preservation of faith, life, family, property, and intellect. The Constitution contains such objectives as well in various clauses.

So to those who say that "islam is a medieval religion", really don't understand Islam. It contains legal mechanisms for adapting to any era or locality.
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Pete said:
What about sawing the heads off people?

Pete,

I'm beginning to think that you can't read. I wrote a rather extensively response immediately above your own that addressed this exact topic.

If you are truly objective and academically honest, you would have taken the time to read the response. You've just made yourself look illiterate, uneducated, and overzealous.

Whose being 'irrational' and 'medieval' now?

with peace,

Abdulhaqq
 

Mikeinsmd

New Member
abdulhaqq said:
Islam actually condemns the innocent murder of civilians. This is established clearly from Islamic texts such as the Qur'an and also from legal verdicts (fatwas) from scholars.

The Qur'an unequivocally prohibits the murder of innocents:

...whoever kills a soul - unless for a soul[1] or for corruption [done] in the land[2] - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And, whoever saves one, it is as if he had saved mankind entirely." [Qur'an, 5:32]
Your claims are weak and infantile.
Ok raghead, explain the highlighted text above coward. Hardly "unequivocal". Got a lil contradiction going on here huh?? :smack:

Weak and infantile is hiding in a cave ordering heads to be sawed off & planes flown into buildings.

Islam is a religion that needs to be annihilated!!
 
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abdulhaqq

New Member
Mikeinsmd said:
Ok raghead, explain the highlighted text above coward. Hardly "unequivocal". Got a lil contradiction going on here huh?? :smack:

Weak and infantile is hiding in a cave ordering heads to be sawed off & planes flown into buildings.

How do you explain that camel fukcer??

Islam is a religion that needs to be annihilated!!

Dear Mikeinsmd,

There is little substance in your response. It is entirely irrational and archaic and remniscent of Medieval style logic, or lack there of. If you want to engage in a serious discussion of Islam, thats fine with me, but I ask that you engage in a little more etiquette than name-calling. The fact that you and your cohorts must engage in stereotypical comments and name-calling is a reflection of the weakness of your own intellectual stamina, not of Islams.

With regards to the comment of 'corruption', this term possesses a double meaning:
1. The first meaning is with regards to those who commit corruption in the form of breaking laws and causing civil and criminal mischief. This verse alestablishes that one can use the death penalty for various crimes, including terrorism. The punishment for engaging in terrorism under Islamic law is death.

2. This verse also permits a state to defend itself against foreign aggression, however, other Islamic texts such as the one's highlighted above regulate such defensive warfare. One cannot kill innocents, one cannot kill women, children, or the elderly, or destroy property.

The rest of your comments have already been addressed above.

Your constant attempts to portray terrorism as being Islamic have been refuted both textually and intellectually.

The ironic part is that many xenophobes complain that Muslims don't do enough to condemn terrorism. Yet, one such American Muslims actually go about to do so, they get told by ignorant hate-mongorers that "islam is really terrorist anyway".

Which one is it? Here I am, an American Muslim whose father served in Vietnam condemning terrorism and I'm being told by uneducated people such as yourself that it doesn't matter.

Wow, some people just choose to live in their own world.

I suggest you stop spewing out such vitriol for a moment and realize just how ignorant, childish, and irrational the comments are in this thread.

With Peace,

Abdulhaqq.
 
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Bustem' Down

Give Peas a Chance
This guy is tryingto say what was done was wrong. That Islam is a peaceful religion that fanatics have skewed. Exactly what you have been screaming for since 9/11 and all you can do is spew hate filled remarks.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Watch the language in the Religion forum, please. There's no need for name-calling and profanity.

Bustem' Down said:
That Islam is a peaceful religion that fanatics have skewed.
There are an awful lot of fanatics in that religion. In fact, the leaders of the religion are fanatics who encourage fanaticism. It's kind of like saying the Democrat party is moderate, even though their leadership is decidedly Leftist - doesn't fly.

You've just made yourself look illiterate, uneducated, and overzealous.

Whose being 'irrational' and 'medieval' now?

with peace,

Abdulhaqq
That made me laugh :lol: For someone who's trying to buck worldwide media coverage and say they're all wrong, you've got a funny way of making your point.

"We are religion of peace! And if you don't agree, we'll chop your head off and burn your home to the ground!"

:lol:
 

vincenzo4

New Member
Can't Read

Ma Salaam my friend. I have experienced the same dissonance with the local talent here. They read what they want, and read into it what they desire.

I agree with your assertions of Islaam. What your religion is experiencing is a hostage taking of your faith, your home and heart by murderers. This global jihad is not at the hands of the huddled and embattled family of three trying to raise a decent family in Baghdad.

This is nothing but another cycle of a sect of humanity who wants to rule the world and is using a religious faith to drive it on.

I know many of your faith personally who despise the bloodletting, who have lost family and friends repeatedly, and yet their courage to help with this war is courage many of these people could do well to emulate.

Vincenzo


abdulhaqq said:
Pete,

I'm beginning to think that you can't read. I wrote a rather extensively response immediately above your own that addressed this exact topic.

If you are truly objective and academically honest, you would have taken the time to read the response. You've just made yourself look illiterate, uneducated, and overzealous.

Whose being 'irrational' and 'medieval' now?

with peace,

Abdulhaqq
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Dear Vraiblonde

For Muslims, the war on terrorism is not a war of 'defense', it is basically a civil war between moderate mainstream Muslims and a fringe minority.

Although it is unfortunately true that a good deal of Muslims happen to be terrorists, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists and condemn there actions.

Lets not forget that it is Muslims who are fighting against Al Qaeda in Iraq and in Afghanistan and all over the world just as vigorously as non-Muslims. This war isn't about "Islam versus the West", it is about those who believe in compassion and civility as a way of life against those who don't.


As was stated above, see the fatwa cited above that prohibits the criminal acts of terrorists who use beheadings.

In fact, please read the original post that contains a plethora of sources that condemn terrorism in any way, shape or form.

With Peace,

Abdulhaqq
 
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vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
abdulhaqq said:
As was stated above, see the fatwa cited above that prohibits the criminal acts of terrorists who use beheadings.

In fact, please read the original post that contains a plethora of sources that condemn terrorism in any way, shape or form.
If Islam forbids violence and terrorist acts, why does the Islamic leadership keep encouraging it? And if they are, in fact, the minority, why doesn't the majority get rid of them and take their religion back?
 

dustin

UAIOE
Abdulhagg,

Realistically, all you're gonna do is piss people off here. I suggest spending your time elsewhere with your family or whatever else.

Peace, love, and chicken grease
 

vincenzo4

New Member
Flying

I am of the Italian and Irish heritiage. There is no way I would ever endorse the terror and bloodletting of the La Cosa Nostra or The Irish Republican Army. I have spent a life fighting their vermin.

Islaam suffers from nothing different, they do suffer from indifference, but as you see with with Prime Minister Maliki, courage is a very human endeavor and an attrribute this country has shunned.

The Demos cannot help themselves, and they are about to piss Maliki off royally. They deserve his wrath. This is a man whose very breath is the fantasy of every terrorist to stop. He is very Iraqi and Islam. The disaffection repeatedly displayed every day by Democrats has alienated someone very critical, some who deserves none of it. They visit Baghdad, sip gourmet coffee and then fly home. He and Ambassador Khalizad are there for the duration.

I am very, very proud of my Islammic colleague and their fight for freedom for their children and their children's children. To abandon these people is unthinkable.

President Bush has been taken for granted, disrespected and largely made fun of without any hesitation. Americans have a death wish, and the coming election might prove me quite correct.



vraiblonde said:
Watch the language in the Religion forum, please. There's no need for name-calling and profanity.


There are an awful lot of fanatics in that religion. In fact, the leaders of the religion are fanatics who encourage fanaticism. It's kind of like saying the Democrat party is moderate, even though their leadership is decidedly Leftist - doesn't fly.


That made me laugh :lol: For someone who's trying to buck worldwide media coverage and say they're all wrong, you've got a funny way of making your point.

"We are religion of peace! And if you don't agree, we'll chop your head off and burn your home to the ground!"

:lol:
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
vraiblonde said:
If Islam forbids violence and terrorist acts, why does the Islamic leadership keep encouraging it? And if they are, in fact, the minority, why doesn't the majority get rid of them and take their religion back?

Dear Vraiblonde

What proof do you have that the Islamic leadership encourages terrorism? Are you aware of the sheer number of Muslim leaders and scholars who have condemned terrorism? Just because they don't get press coverage doesn't mean that they don't exist.

For example, when the unfortunate acts of violence that occurred in the wake of His Holiness, the Pope regarding Islam, almost 30 Muslim scholars wrote a carefully crafted, respectful intellectual response that stated clarifications of the Pope's statements. This statement was signed by the Muslim world's leading scholars and it not only stated their disagreements with the pope in politeful terms, it condemned the acts of violence that occurred, especially the killing of the nun.

So when you say "the Muslim leadership", which Muslim 'leaders' are you referring to? These people are fringe elements within our communities. There are over 1.4 billion Muslims in the world. You cannot paint a generalization based on the actions of an extremist fringe.

Here is a copy of the Letter to the Pope if anyone is interested in reading it.

With Peace,

Abdulhaqq
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
vincenzo4 said:
This global jihad is not at the hands of the huddled and embattled family of three trying to raise a decent family in Baghdad.
I agree with this. But when you align yourself with a highly visible group that is making daily news for their violence, you're going to get painted with the same brush. Especially if you don't actively condemn it.
 

Mikeinsmd

New Member
abdulhaqq said:
Dear Mikeinsmd,:blahblah:.
Dear camel jockey,

I have no desire to discuss your warped religion with you or anyone else. I do have a desire to kill as many of you as I can. Deal with it!

Yours in disgust,

A real Patriot :patriot:
 
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