Moron of the Year Award
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
It was just in poor taste. The KKK is part of history too but nobody wants to see a re-enactment at a high school football game.
Steve
Enjoying life!
I would hardly compare the KKK to the principal combatant countries of WWII. In the sense that all of these countries were represented by flag and music, I don't see the problem. This is just one more example of PC run amok.
"Oooh, Nazi Germany was bad! Let's forget they ever existed!"
That is detrimental thinking right there. They did exist, and should not be forgotten. Maybe the ACLU should get involved in the band's defense. I saw last night how the ACLU is fighting to reduce the sentence given to a man who sodomized a "mentally challenged" 14-year old boy. The ACLU claims that the man was unfairly sentenced, even though this was his third conviction. The state gave him 17 years, although heterosexual assault on a minor nets only 15 months. What would the country do without the ACLU?!
It's not that. I would be disconcerted if kids were marching a Nazi flag across the field and playing the Nazi anthem at our football games, too.
Regardless, I can't believe the band director didn't think parents would have a problem with this.
Bertha Venation
New Member
"Heil Hitler" obviously wasn't the director's point.
I agree w/ Eddie & Steve. Too much PC crap. I can somewhat understand the crowd's visceral reaction, but I'm disappointed that the director actually apologized. I think his vision, what he wanted to present, was fine. I'd like to know if the crowd also booed the Japanese & Italian presentations.
This is an excerpt from a letter to the editor of the Knoxville [TN] News-Sentinel. The letter is in answer to letters from other readers who were upset that the Nazi flag had appeared in a photo on the paper's front page.
"People with decent hearts and sound ethics will always recoil at the sight of bigotry. Such symbols remind us of how deep the evil of hatred can affect the very essence of humanity.
"I submit, however, that such symbols should not be buried, ignored or denied for one simple reason: Bigotry cannot flourish when displayed in the glaring light of day.
"Such hatred grows when hidden from view; it needs darkness to grow. Exposure to the light of freedom and to the hearts of people who shun the ideas such bigotry espouses will surely cause the evil that is hate to wilt and die."
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And what about the kids themselves? Why didn't THEY think this was a bad idea? 
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Food for thought...
....
Please read:
http://www.brandenburghistorica.com/page5.html
The 'Nazi' flag...I am presuming they mean the left handed swastika...
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~sidneys/Swastika.htm
Now, from an objective point, you can make up your own mind.
From a subjective standpoint however, I can only guess that history is not real big on the band directors list of things to do.
It is NOT PC to recoil from the bloodbath wrought under this symbol.
....
Please read:
http://www.brandenburghistorica.com/page5.html
The 'Nazi' flag...I am presuming they mean the left handed swastika...
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~sidneys/Swastika.htm
Now, from an objective point, you can make up your own mind.
From a subjective standpoint however, I can only guess that history is not real big on the band directors list of things to do.
It is NOT PC to recoil from the bloodbath wrought under this symbol.
Steve
Enjoying life!
Re: Food for thought...
I'm not sure I understand which point of view you are adopting here. You say that you believe that history is probably not one of the band leader's stongest skills. But the presentation was of national anthems and flags of the major participants of WWII, not an extensive lesson on the rights and wrongs of that War. It was not as if the band leader were saluting or vilifying the actions of the Germans, or any other country for that matter. It was what it was: music, with flags as representative symbols of the countries.
It was the crowd and the media who made it an issue, focused its loathing on the Swastika, then forced an apology from the band leader. The only thing I think was stupid was for the band leader to apologize.
I'm not sure I understand which point of view you are adopting here. You say that you believe that history is probably not one of the band leader's stongest skills. But the presentation was of national anthems and flags of the major participants of WWII, not an extensive lesson on the rights and wrongs of that War. It was not as if the band leader were saluting or vilifying the actions of the Germans, or any other country for that matter. It was what it was: music, with flags as representative symbols of the countries.
It was the crowd and the media who made it an issue, focused its loathing on the Swastika, then forced an apology from the band leader. The only thing I think was stupid was for the band leader to apologize.
Hessian
Well-Known Member
Oh I wish I was in the land of Cotton...
"One more word son and it will be two years in the county facillity!"
Do I think it was bad judgement to honor the anthem publicly?Absolutely.
Is there a better venue? Yes...documentary films, perhaps theater or reenactment--NOT with a marching band!!!
I'm glad I wasn't there....I would have involuntarily gone looking for a torch
"One more word son and it will be two years in the county facillity!"
Do I think it was bad judgement to honor the anthem publicly?Absolutely.
Is there a better venue? Yes...documentary films, perhaps theater or reenactment--NOT with a marching band!!!
I'm glad I wasn't there....I would have involuntarily gone looking for a torch
Steve
Enjoying life!
Originally posted by Hessian
I'm glad I wasn't there....I would have involuntarily gone looking for a torch
Then I hope you don't get as angered when foreigners burn our flag. They are exercising their opinions, too.
And again, I don't see how that flag, or the Rising Sun, were publicly honored. The event was not to "honor" any of them; that's your interpretation.
If anyone should be angry over any of it, it should be that the band director included the French flag!
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Hessian
Well-Known Member
Sorry Steve, It wasn't a reference to burning any flag...just a hint that German Marching music is almost hypnotic (at least to me) and I go looking for a torch parade (involuntarily)
No...I don't endorse flag burning (Isn't there a photo on snopes of a middle eastern type torching himself by accident when the flag he was burning (ours) lit him up?) I do approve fully and encourage of those type of spectacles.
No...I don't endorse flag burning (Isn't there a photo on snopes of a middle eastern type torching himself by accident when the flag he was burning (ours) lit him up?) I do approve fully and encourage of those type of spectacles.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Steve...
...I'm stuck assuming here, based on the reported crowd reaction, about the flag as they don't say which one other than the 'Nazi' flag.
In terms of accuracy...
http://flagspot.net/flags/de_his.html
...it is correct.
If they had used the German National flag...
http://123independenceday.dgreetings.com/germanreuni/flag/
...then it would have fit the theme without having the most offensive symbol in the history of man on display at a high school football game.
So, I'm cutting the guy some slack in terms of his history. Maybe he meant to offend?
I guess I'll let the crowd reaction be the guide here.
Show the one in the middle some time...
http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html
...and watch the reaction. This is not the flag of genocide and mass murder. You could show the one at the top and not even get a second glance from most people.
Somewhere in the proceedings discretion in regrads to peoples emotions need to be a part of the equation. The classroom is the place for accuracy at all costs.
...I'm stuck assuming here, based on the reported crowd reaction, about the flag as they don't say which one other than the 'Nazi' flag.
In terms of accuracy...
http://flagspot.net/flags/de_his.html
...it is correct.
If they had used the German National flag...
http://123independenceday.dgreetings.com/germanreuni/flag/
...then it would have fit the theme without having the most offensive symbol in the history of man on display at a high school football game.
So, I'm cutting the guy some slack in terms of his history. Maybe he meant to offend?
I guess I'll let the crowd reaction be the guide here.
Show the one in the middle some time...
http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html
...and watch the reaction. This is not the flag of genocide and mass murder. You could show the one at the top and not even get a second glance from most people.
Somewhere in the proceedings discretion in regrads to peoples emotions need to be a part of the equation. The classroom is the place for accuracy at all costs.
Steve
Enjoying life!
Re: Steve...
On that, you are wrong Larry. The most offensive symbol in the history of man is apparently the crucifix. But anyway...
Although an estimated 6 million Jews were killed during WWII, they were not the largest single source of victims.
USSR: ~21,000,000
China: ~11,000,000
All totaled, approximately 56,000,000 died as a consequence of WWII. As a European-based society, we focus on the events in Europe. The atrocities that occurred in the Far East were as equally bad, if not worse. But no one is booing the Rising Sun, yet they attacked the US unprovoked.
One source: http://www.hitler.org/ww2-deaths.html
I agree with Bertha. The only power any symbol has is that which we give to it. And the symbols change every day.
Speaking of the Confederate Battle Flag, we bought a CBF boogie board for our son this summer. I hesitated at first, then decided I was not going to play the PC game. I guess that makes me racist?
On that, you are wrong Larry. The most offensive symbol in the history of man is apparently the crucifix. But anyway...
Although an estimated 6 million Jews were killed during WWII, they were not the largest single source of victims.
USSR: ~21,000,000
China: ~11,000,000
All totaled, approximately 56,000,000 died as a consequence of WWII. As a European-based society, we focus on the events in Europe. The atrocities that occurred in the Far East were as equally bad, if not worse. But no one is booing the Rising Sun, yet they attacked the US unprovoked.
One source: http://www.hitler.org/ww2-deaths.html
I agree with Bertha. The only power any symbol has is that which we give to it. And the symbols change every day.
Speaking of the Confederate Battle Flag, we bought a CBF boogie board for our son this summer. I hesitated at first, then decided I was not going to play the PC game. I guess that makes me racist?
Steve
Enjoying life!
Re: Re: Re: Steve...
See, there you go worrying that someone will think we are part of the KKK or some other racist group. Let them think what they want to. They will anyway.
Originally posted by Christy
You probably should have mentioned we bought it because they were marked down in price in comparison to the other's, not because we've joined the KKK.
See, there you go worrying that someone will think we are part of the KKK or some other racist group. Let them think what they want to. They will anyway.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
I am not...
...communicating.
Oh well.
My point is that perception is what counts in a public setting like a football game 1/2 time show. We can have a nude babe run around the field at half time and claim, after the cat calls and stampede, that it was merely a celebration of art. Conversely, we have no problems when said babe is IN an art class room full of students who are there to learn and paint/draw etc. This is predictable.
Hitlers Naziism is the single factor that ignited World War II. I do not mean for the Japanese or Uncle Joe (or Pol Pot or Mao) to feel left out of the atrocities sweepstakes.
My point is all about perception. You do a Rorschach test and flash the flags that were on display at the game and the reactions, to me anyway, are predictable when you get to the crooked cross and the Stars and Bars based on what they represent. The music director should have been able to, based on history, predict the negative reaction of the Nazi part of his show. Not everyone is offended, just most people.
Maybe you'll get a more negative reaction to the Cross or the Star of David in Medinah, but I don't think it is very upsetting in Texas.
As far as the Stars and Bars go, they are the battle flag of slavery
in the perception of many people, especially blacks. This is true in reality as well. Who did the flag represent? What did they stand for? No slavery. No American Civil War. No Stars and Bars.
In any event, our collective history is nowhere near as shameful or heinous as that of Nazi Germany. We fought our war to decide who would be free. They fought theirs to see who would not.
...communicating.
Oh well.
My point is that perception is what counts in a public setting like a football game 1/2 time show. We can have a nude babe run around the field at half time and claim, after the cat calls and stampede, that it was merely a celebration of art. Conversely, we have no problems when said babe is IN an art class room full of students who are there to learn and paint/draw etc. This is predictable.
Hitlers Naziism is the single factor that ignited World War II. I do not mean for the Japanese or Uncle Joe (or Pol Pot or Mao) to feel left out of the atrocities sweepstakes.
My point is all about perception. You do a Rorschach test and flash the flags that were on display at the game and the reactions, to me anyway, are predictable when you get to the crooked cross and the Stars and Bars based on what they represent. The music director should have been able to, based on history, predict the negative reaction of the Nazi part of his show. Not everyone is offended, just most people.
Maybe you'll get a more negative reaction to the Cross or the Star of David in Medinah, but I don't think it is very upsetting in Texas.
As far as the Stars and Bars go, they are the battle flag of slavery
in the perception of many people, especially blacks. This is true in reality as well. Who did the flag represent? What did they stand for? No slavery. No American Civil War. No Stars and Bars.
In any event, our collective history is nowhere near as shameful or heinous as that of Nazi Germany. We fought our war to decide who would be free. They fought theirs to see who would not.