Israel & Palestine-Real Story

For all you people who don't know the story and think Palestine has rights to that land, you need to read the bible.  The land belongs to Israel, God gave the land to the Jews.  When they were slaves, God told them that Israel was there's.  The Arabic countries are trying to take over because Israel is based upon Christians.  If it wasn't, then why do we have the birth place of Jesus there?  The UN and British forced Israel to give them that land!

Well then God can show up and tell them this himself because you're not gonna convince the Arabs that "God" gave that land to the Israelites based on a text in which they don't even believe.  Were you actually trying to use the Bible as LEGAL grounds for Israel owning that land???

This is what is so tragic about the whole conflict. How can both sides talk things out when each is convinced that God is on its side? The Israelis and the Palestinians seem like a bunch of unruly children: "He started it!" "Did not!" "Did too!" I think it's obvious that Palestinians need their own nation on the West Bank. How can that happen when Palestinians terrorists are blowing up Passover seders and Israeli troops are shooting unarmed Palestinians? My wish is for the world community to stand up and say, "Okay, everyone, out of the pool!" and then relocate the Israelis and Palestinians out of that Godforsaken land. How about the Israelis in Nevada and the Palestinians in the Australian outback? It may be a crazy idea, but enough of the bloodshed!!

Missi,

What is today Israel was ruled by Jews for quite some time before Jesus.  I'm not sure how you can say that it's based on Christians (or for that matter, what that means).

As for the current debate over the Israelis and Palestinians, I'm trying very hard not to get myself invovled in those threads on this bb.

Oh come on Bud!  Join the fun!

Christy,

Thanks for the chuckle.  Normally I would chime in, but something like the Israel-Palestine issue is one of those where people tend to be so convinced of their view that they don't see other opinions.  The result is much banging of heads against walls.  Call me crazy, but that's not one of my hobbies.

OK,

You're crazy!

Ugh.  I had that one coming, I suppose.

You will probably see the extent that Israel has overstepped there bounds in humanitarian brutality...shortly.

It amazes me how many people in the U.S. make quick and very uninformed decisions. Take a look at the situation...weigh the facts and ask yourself...hmmm, what would I do if I were on either side.  Human nature will dictate the outcome over there.  Intervention will only lengthen the time that it takes for human nature to overtake.

This is my guess...
Israel is extremely pissed off...hammering the palestinians.  The palestinians..a few weeks from now...will attempt to capitalize on their loss, gaining support from arab/muslim nations (Possibly the UN and Europe).  Israel will attempt to cut off each of the palestinian communities spread throughout their land...trapping the palestinians and limiting their travels.  Tensions will grow even worse.  Suicide bombings will continue...with a new generation of young suicidal "marters" who have yet to hit the black list of those wanted by the Israelis.

The U.S. doesn't have a clue as to what they will do.  Neither does anyone else.  Why...because new ideas are hard to come by.  A real stalemate..in other words.  So, we (the U.S. and everyone else who wants to appear like they are doing something good) will spin their wheels.

Meanwhile, back in Israel/Palestein, tensions will be uncontrollably intense.  Israel will have their hands covering their face while palestinians realize the loss they have suffered.  Suicide bombings will continue, organizations will be made to develop new strategies to punish Israel...being backed by richer muslim nations...posiibly Iraq or Syria and the younger generations of Osama Bin Laden. In their minds its a fight to the death...Ironically...they don't care if they die trying... if you didn't already notice.

In the end? Who knows.  If I were to shoot in the dark I'd guess that the only answer would be land.  Palestinians need a place to live.  They don't need 20 Berlins in Israel. They need a common border.  Since this is very unlikely I see a very intense situation developing between supporters of arab/muslim nations and the west.  Our "War on Terrorism" will become very long, expensive and complicated.  The problems won't just be there.  They will be everywhere.  

We have a pissed off dog and an alley cat fighting in a toilet bowl. We are all happy dogs and cats watching the battle.  Secretly we want our own side to win. To the other side we preach about how peaceful we are and how the past has caused the two in the toilet to act like crazy idiots.  The problem is that the dog has all the land outside the toilet.  The cat has lost it's kittens and is bleeding severely.

Never liked Cats much anyway!

I don't think it has anything to do with land. I think it is just musulims and jews hate each other and use whatever they can to hurt the other.

If it were about land then why aren't the palestineans doing the same thing to Jordan and Syria that they are to Israel. Throughout history Jordan and Syria treated the palestineans in a similar fashion as Israel is doing now.

If the palestinean wants are met, they will just want more and more, enough will never be enough and the killing will continue.

Unfortunately 20-50 people dying at a time is not going to do anything to this process. Both sides are going to have to have a huge death toll like 10,000 in a day for them to realize what they are doing.

The situation is no different than Iraq with the Kurds, India with Kashmir, Great Brittian with Northern Ireland, etc etc. Someone without the power is basically envious of someone with it.

We ought to decide, once and for all, if we have a need to be involved in this situation. I am really not informed enough on this situation to say something really profound...(shame on me, I know)
If Arafat is indeed a terrorist, give him an ultimatum. Even if the people actually conducting the bombings are not under his command to one extent or another, he is probably one of the most influential people in the region. It seems that he has the power to bring peace.
If he does not obide by the ultimatum he should be held accountable as a terrorist, like Saddam was in Kuait.

usn4now,

The most recent bombing took place and Hamas claimed responsibility. As Hamas is not under the control of the PNA, how can Arafat be held to account for their actions? That would be equivalent to holding Bush (or any previous President) responsible for the acts of the KKK.

Ken,

That's like saying Bill Clintons penis attacks some poor lady, KA- BLOWEY, in a bar in East Timor somewhere and shrugging it off, "Well, we all know that the penis claimed responsbilitiy but we all ALSO know that Clinton neither controls nor can be held responsible for the actions of the penis..."

And if that don't fly, how about if McVeigh (or a domestic US group of your choosing) attacks(ed) Canada or Mexico and Bush says "Hey, we're not responsible for them nut balls and we can't do anything about it! Besides, we're doing all we can to get a handle on this East Timor thing..."

If he, Arafat, can't do anyhting about it, he is not fit to be part of the solution. If he can, but chooses not to, he is unfit to be part of the solution.

I think he should go home to Egypt, where he is from.

Larry,

Nice try on the Slick Wee Wee analogy, but there is the zipper that can control the penis, as it is Willy that does the unzipping. Hamas, while penile, is outside of Arafat’s pants (or robe) and is under nobody’s control (think of a nude slick Willy at a Girl Scout convention).

McVeigh was reigned in as all terrorists should be, but you have to admit other groups like the KKK are still out there and they still thrive on terrorism, but can that be blamed on any one person? Particularly if the person you want to blame has had the tools to reign in these folks blown to hell.

Whatever.

After yesterdays little gig at the Likud gathering I have now given up on those morons as well. Talk about "Great Moments in Diplomatic Stipudity."

I already was convinced that the Arab angle is simply to keep up the strife, forever. Dad always said it takes two to tango.

I see your point, Ken, but I think there are some major differences. We in the U.S. do not condone acts of international terror.
You're right, McVeigh was not acting on the behalf of the President. The difference is that we investigated, prosecuted, and executed. If McVeigh had driven into Canada or Mexico and blown things up we would have done the same.
The comparison to the KKK is not relevant. The U.S. government does not turn it's head when someone commits a crime in the name of the KKK.
I am in agreement with Larry. If Arafat will not accept responsibility for the citizens of his country than he should not have one. If he does not have the means to investigate, prosecute, and execute he should ask for help and at least APPEAR that he is using all his resources. If the only thing he has to say is "Sorry, but what can ya do ....." than he can go pack sand.


If you're not with us, you're against us !!!!!

usn4now,

Sure we condone it. Remember just a few short years ago when our last President paroled the FALN members. Letting people back on the streets convicted of performing terrorist acts against citizens of this nation. We have ignored numerous acts by the KKK and are now finally getting a few of them to trial after over 30 years of inactivity by law enforcement against them. They wouldn’t have gone to trial if the son of one of those involved hadn’t opened up and told.

Arafat will accept responsibility if he can. Sharon's party says they will never allow Palestine to exist, but these are the "good people", you know, a democratic government (Hah, give me a break). Arafat will accept help but is anyone offering it? Hell no, everyone, including our country, has been trying to lay blame for all evils in that region at his feet. There are plenty more feet that the blame can be laid at, including ours for bankrolling the Israeli military. Palestinians are being called terrorists for trying to hold onto the land that was declared theirs. The Israelis are seen as being within their right to occupy the land of neighboring countries and have continued to colonize the land once they occupy it. The UN condemns them for that and the US of A (except for one recent vote) vetoes any act against them through the Security Council.

Now Israel is backing off trying to reach peace by refusing to talk with him. Arafat has condemned the suicide bombings, in Arabic, has turned over those requested by the Israelis, arrested others and is trying by meeting the requirements laid upon him. What you don't see is reciprocity from the others involved. Explain that if you can?

I'm sure this is territory that's been covered already - but this morning on Fox News they mentioned some aspects of a Palestinian state that had not occurred to me - one of which would be - what if the Palestinian state entered into a military alliance with Iraq or Iran, and Israel was suddenly facing a massive military buildup right along its borders? And if I were betting - I'd bet good money that would happen right away.