Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008

chernmax

NOT Politically Correct!!
Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks will become law unless public outrage puts the kibosh on it somehow.

EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) wants EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents.

But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.

Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake. That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.


What Do You Think?
If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts, the technology continues to be honed -- and quietly put into service.

Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system. Within a few years, as many as 90 percent of all new motor vehicles will be equipped with EDRs, according to government estimates -- whether the requirement NHTSA is pushing actually becomes law or not.

The automakers are just as eager to keep tabs on us as the government -- in part to keep the shyster lawyers who have been so successfully digging into their deep pockets at bay. EDRs would provide irrefutable evidence of high-speed driving, for example -- or make it impossible for a person injured in a crash to deny he wasn't wearing a seat belt.

Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?

It's all for our own good.

But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/
 

Bustem' Down

Give Peas a Chance
Doesn't bother me, but I'm in the military and used to Big Brother watching me.

If they put it in fine, the only thing I would have to do is slow down about 5 mph. Also, 2 months after they become standard, everyone with auto mechanics knowledge will have disabled them.
 

CrashTest

Well-Known Member
chernmax said:
Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake. That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.

Wouldn’t this violate our 6th amendment rights. The 6th amendment gives us the right to cross examine our accusers. How can you cross examine a black box?
 

Floyd2004

-Void-
CrashTest said:
Wouldn’t this violate our 6th amendment rights. The 6th amendment gives us the right to cross examine our accusers. How can you cross examine a black box?

Glitch in the program?
 

01mds10

New Member
from reading this, i think the EDR is a good idea to an extent.
it will totally help on examing a car crash. although on the speeding factor, that's dumb. i guess they have not thought of the idea that, when you drag race(legally at budds creek or any 1/4 mile strip) your speeding. are they gonna give you a ticket now also for speeding, when your racing on a legal 1/4 mile strip..

if i buy a vehicle and it has the EDR, i will be disabling that just for that factor
 

Llwynog

Thats Welsh for fox.
01mds10 said:
from reading this, i think the EDR is a good idea to an extent.
it will totally help on examing a car crash. although on the speeding factor, that's dumb. i guess they have not thought of the idea that, when you drag race(legally at budds creek or any 1/4 mile strip) your speeding. are they gonna give you a ticket now also for speeding, when your racing on a legal 1/4 mile strip..

if i buy a vehicle and it has the EDR, i will be disabling that just for that factor

Do 1/4 mile strips have speed limits?
 

01mds10

New Member
Floyd2004 said:
tops at 92 i think... too fast for a truck IMO

actually it tops at 98, to fast to go on the street IMO.

if i wanted to go faster, i could very easily with a few bolt on's and throw the hypertech power programmer on and change the rev limiter..

but stock the 4.3 v6 tops out at 98 MPH
the 2.2 I4 tops out at 94 mph.
(this is for 94+ i am unsure about 82-93)
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
chernmax said:
Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?
This is the scariest part of this, armed with information showing one's negligence insurers could refuse to pay claims leaving the owner/operator liable for what previously would have been covered.

I think as the owner of the vehicle and thus the "black box" no one should have the ability to obtain access to the data within it unless specifically authorized by the person that owns the device. A suspect the first time a court or company uses that data against an owner it will trigger a major Fourth Amendment challenge.
 

CrashTest

Well-Known Member
Ken King said:
This is the scariest part of this, armed with information showing one's negligence insurers could refuse to pay claims leaving the owner/operator liable for what previously would have been covered.

I think as the owner of the vehicle and thus the "black box" no one should have the ability to obtain access to the data within it unless specifically authorized by the person that owns the device. A suspect the first time a court or company uses that data against an owner it will trigger a major Fourth Amendment challenge.

As I pointed out, it will cause 6th amendment issues if we're charges with crimes based on black box data but it will not cause 4th amendment issues. Afterall, the Constitution does not grant us the right to drive a car.
 

Floyd2004

-Void-
01mds10 said:
actually it tops at 98, to fast to go on the street IMO.

if i wanted to go faster, i could very easily with a few bolt on's and throw the hypertech power programmer on and change the rev limiter..

but stock the 4.3 v6 tops out at 98 MPH
the 2.2 I4 tops out at 94 mph.
(this is for 94+ i am unsure about 82-93)

How do you know what it tops at if you think thats too fast for the street ;) hehe

Neon will hit all of 122. only done it once. made me happy. :lalala:
 
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