Does Islam preach Hate?

Heretic · May 28, 2002

By now we all know that Islamic countries teach their school children that the West is evil, America is evil, Christians are evil, Jews and Israel are worse than evil. Even countries that are supposedly allies, such as Saudi Arabia, teach their children this. Why do they do this? A friend of mine suggested that it was to keep their people from demanding freedoms like those us Americans have. Is it to maintain the strict religious control of their countries? or are there more sinister reasons behind it?

Recently I have seen alot of rhetoric from people saying that Islam preaches peace, tolerence, etc. Is this just politically correct banter or actually the truth? Why do so many muslims hate a country that gives them many personal freedoms, that treats them better than their homeland?

Having gone to graduate school I have seen many Muslim students live it up in America but still believe that our society is basically evil.

Any muslims out there care to elaborate?

Heretic · May 28, 2002

Some of the women enjoy what would be considered a very conservative American life, but no partying etc. I was of the opinion that the women were smarter than their male counterparts, there were far fewer of them so maybe they were truely exceptional to be allowed this opportunity. They were also friendlier and spoke better English in general.

This is off topic however.

I don't look for too many people to participate in this discussion since it could be considered a taboo topic by some.

sgtsprout · May 28, 2002

Nothing taboo about it

How would it be considered Taboo lol.

Maybe controversal. But screw em if they don't like to fight argue and debate.

But I have a ? heretic. Umm where did you see these muslims partying down? And is this the same hypocracy we chrsitains and baptists utilize?

Cause I believe it's similiar. Thing is NOT all muslims are taught all jacked. I agree most over seas there are taught wrong. Kinda like Hitler did.

When I was overseas. During Ramada season(If any of you all don't know what that is)
Let me say a quick note--some month long crazy religous thing. Like umm some kind of passover for a month. Anyways---they are like us for the most part. Religous people, talk smack some then go out and go drink up and everything. They get hookers. So don't we--Now we have our extremists and they have theirs. I am a firm believer in discipline. I say let's Cut their nads off for the ones responsible. So if a few innocent get hurt. SO be it. I can accept that.

But NOT all muslims are bad. I don't know a one muslim. But I am no saint. And nor are every muslim or every christain or baptists or whatever religions ya all are.

So with that said...whats wrong with a muslim checking out our lifestyle?

Ya seen the special on HBO i beleive it was about the Amish people? How they come to an age and decide. Some of them drink drugs etc...so if we think they MUSLIMS are so high and mighty...HAH.... they are hypocrits as we are.

Now me I am a hypocrit I am sure sometimes. But I condone partying and acting a fool. Good for the bones. Keep ya healthy I say.
anyways peace

Heretic · May 28, 2002

Go to any major college or university and you will see something similar. I have no problem with anyone checking out our life style but then to critize us for it when they seem to enjoy it so much that is where my problem lies.

Of course I know all Muslims aren't bad, I never said that.

What I want to know is why is hate and contempt taught and who exactly is responsible for it. And why.

And for what its worth half of all post graduate degrees in Engineering, Mathematics, and the Sciences awarded in the United States go to foreign nationals.

sgtsprout · May 28, 2002

true enough

And some of those scholarships are awarded out of PC--affirmative action. So we need fixing up in our country too.

But who's responsible? Heck can you put the blame on any one person. Here's my way of thinking. Someone kills someone. But say they were TAUGHT to kill. Ya think I blame the teacher Hell no. I blame the stupid son a B$%^$ who did the killing. Should the teacher(the so called wise one who lacks courage be punished. Ya damn skippy they do)

Now when they criticise us...and they do what we are doing. thats the hypocracy. But try to remember the power america has over them--this is why they do that. The freedom theyt don't have. They wish they had our freedom. Most of them say we abuse it. Maybe we do, but isn't that our right?

So way I see it they can all rot in unholy H E double hockey stick. Some are bigger hypocrits then others. All in all I could care less, as long as they don't harm us. I could care less if some jack decides to critcise us. Of course in my oppinion I"D ship him off where they came form too--They don't like it here, they can leave.

Like my ENGLISH problem...YA live in america Speak the language. Not if your visting. but if ya live here. and if ya no likey here, Get the F out lol.

plenty of good foreigners who'd like to come here and would provide well being to the country.

And another thing...I hate the whole Italian american, african american. No damn it we are american. plain and simple. To me anyways...but I am biased and oppionated and an Ass Oh well

Hessian · May 28, 2002

Look at the source!

Ok...lets start with a solid foundation here:
Look at the life of Muhammed as told by his followers and his family and even the "inspired one" himself.
*He takes a 9 year old girl for his wife (we have a name for that here in the west)
*His chief scribe helped him write down his teachings then quit because Mohammed was loose and free with the wording
*He clearly refers to women as property and encouraged his followers to beat them if there were any attitude problems.
*He inspired hundreds of years of violent conquest long before the crusades ever occurred.
*He recalled some of his teachings and said they were from Satan (remember the fury over the "Satanic verses?")

So...this is pretty easy: Islam is a pile of crap taught by fanatical tyrants and the main fabric is hate and violence. :barf:

Jump off the hypocrite wagon for a minute at consider the true sources of both faiths.
Tschüss!

sgtsprout · May 29, 2002

well

But where are you going to exstinguish that source? Heck doesn't do much good trying to find put the blame one place or the other. Punish the stupid bastards that are responible for being stupid and following stupid practices. Can't help if they are unintelligent...thing is How can you fix this problem. Not YOU necessarily though. But how can america fix this problem. It takes time to exstinguish misinformation and all.

Getting off that hypocracy bandwagon...but

Like I don't beleive in God for instance, so I compare it just abit to the bible. A book. A simple book of stories. Similiar "Book"

I understand we don't teach to hate like they do. IN the Koran(spelling) they specifacally show how jewish people are hated and not to be trusted and thigns about women they talk aboiut it hateful and are disrespectful to women. So it isn't the same. so hell i am going to bed can't think staright

Slynx · May 29, 2002

Gotta Pipe in...

I had to chime in on this thread. There are many forms of religion. I, myself, was raised Roman Catholic. I have not been a DEVOUT Catholic for many years (personal reasons). I have been to many different churches of many different faiths (both Christian and non-Christian). In my humble opinion, NO religion teaches hate more than Islam.

I have NEVER heard a priest, or reverend, or minister or monk, etc.... spew the type of Anti-everyone who is not one of us, like Muslims. Granted, there are some who truly want to embrace this so called religion of peace, but they are fooling themselves if they believe that this religion (as a whole) is one of love and peace.

I have seen it first hand, and will say that it is truly the only religion that I will NEVER visit again. I personally don't have a problem with anyones faith, (or lack there of) but when someone tells me if I am not a follower of their prophet I am going to hell....I have a BIG problem with that!!!

Turned my insides green from the get go. :burning:

andwhat · May 29, 2002

Much of the reason that people in the middel east are taught this way is b/c they are so poor. The fact is that many of those with money are religious fanatics. the governments really don't give much of a rats ass about the people, they're just happy riding around in their rolls royce they bought with their private oil holdings. those with money open schools, especially in the poorer more desolate areas, and allow all students to come for free. However they very much control the curriculum. Hence these students are brought up learning a type of Religious Fanaticism.

Another reason is that these countries are ruled by religion (Iran, Yemen, UAE etc.). When you have any nation ruled by a religion, inevitably you will have fanatics take power. If someone knows the scripture and is a good speaker then people will turn to them. So all this crap from Hessian about Islam being crap is essentially that, a giant load of crap. He's quick to criticise Islam (and I'll admit there are some things in the Qu'ran which I don't personally agree with) and say look at the source but I say Islam has one edge on Christianity and that is the story of how the word of Allah came to be written for the people through the prophet Muhammad. christianity has no such account, especially for the Old Testament.

We're also failing to look at the fact that there are three very different sects within Islam, Sunni, Suffi, and Shiite. Each of these sects are vastly different. Sunni Muslims are not allowed to listen to music or sing. Suffi Muslims have incorporated teachings from Hindu into their faith. We cannot simply lump all three sects into one big Islam.

As for the being full of hate, Islam teaches love and peace, however it also says that the word of Allah is the one true word and that any government not ruled by that law is illegitimate and it is the responsibility of those followers to replace it. See what happens when you take religion too seriouslly? You get a mess like the middle east and people like Hessian.

andwhat · May 29, 2002

Hey slynx, every religion tells you if you don't believeve as they do then you're going to hell. I'm sure Hessian will be quick to chime in that if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell.

Actually Islam doesn't really talk about hell. They only talk about rewards in the afterlife, not so much punishments.

jimmy · May 29, 2002

Very true, andwhat, all very true...

And Slynx, if you've never heard a christian religious authority figure of any kind preach hate, man, you must not own a tv (pat robertson and jerry falwell anyone?).

Andwhat brings up a good point about looking to the politics of some of these countries rather than just the relgion itself. Islam DOES preach peace and tolerance but can ALSO be interpreted to have various "calls to action" which are used as justification for war.

And I'm not defending that by any means. As andwhat said, that's the danger of having religious fundamentalism in government in any form.

Which is why its just RIDICULOUS that it's HESSIAN (our resident fundamentalist) opining about the abuse of religion to teach intolerance and hate of others...how does that go? Something about a pot and a kettle? And one or both of them being black?? Yeah. That's the one.

Slynx · May 29, 2002

Ok now....

Alright guys, I was just posting MY opinion. And no, I have PERSONALLY never heard any other religious leader preach hate or the "other guy is goin' to hell" thing. Maybe I never went to the right (or would that be wrong?) church. And I have never wasted my time watching some TV personality asking for money.

I am quite sure it happens, but in my experience I have only heard one man (a muslim cleric) preach with vileness and hatred~~and that was right here in the Good ol' USA. I love my country, and I take it personal when I hear hatred spewed at her. My belief is if they hate our freedom so much...GET OUT, and clean up your own house.

Like I said...just MY experience. I can only speak of earthly things with truth that I have known for myself.

Kyle · May 29, 2002

This "peaceful religion" propaganda is being driven by politicians fearful of large numbers of reprisals on the Muslim population here in the States. It seemed to hit the airwaves after several instances of 7-11 clerks or cabbies getting the hell beat out of them. And in two cases I recall someone was shot.

From 634 AD until now, almost 1400 years, they have been at war with the rest of the world. It won't end until someone of them manages to swing the religion from one pole to the other or they stage something that raises our ire enough to bloody the lunatics for good! Personally I would have thought the WTC and Washington attacks would have done that but now it seems to be waning.

What's driving this globally and bringing terrorism worldwide isn’t the Sunni, Shiite or any other sects so much as it is Wahhabism! But, as far as I’m concerned, since the rest endorse, support or allow that fanatical activity…They’re all guilty.

As for the references to other religions and hateful teachings…I don't recall any other religion that was born in blood and had such a long reign in blood.
If you really hate Christianity that much say what you will, however, it wasn't built upon seeking out and slaughtering neighboring nations. It was built upon the teachings of one man that taught peace, forgiveness and compassion as opposed to hate, war and death!

andwhat · May 29, 2002

Ok history lesson time. the reason that the Koran speaks of the hatred for jews is that the original 12 Israeli tribes swept over all of arabia and attempted to eradicate all muslims. If that happened to me, I'd be pretty pissed too. Add in the last 60 years of oppression for Palestinians in Israel and yes there's another reason for them to be a bit ornery.

Most muslims are a peaceful bunch. But you get a few wackos going and all hell breaks loose. Look at the crusades, hell look at the Holocaust. In both cases a few religious fanatics abused the "word of God" and killed millions of innocent people. Thats whats going on with many Muslims. The difference is that we had many other Chritians to speak out against the holocaust and say it wasn't God's way. There are many Muslims speaking out against the violence, but we're just not listening and don't care to. Its much easier to unite one entire group with blanket sterotypes and blame all of them then it is to realize that a few fanatics are powerful enough to affect the world so profoundly.

Slynx, you've never heard someone condemn a homo-sexual and tell them they're going to hell b/c they're not following their God's word? Again, if you don't believe as I do, you're going to hell.

One last thing, the messages in the Koran, Torrah and Bible all refer to the same god, whether he be Allah, Jehova, God, Jesus whatever, they just view him in different ways. in fact Muslims speak of Jesus however they believe he was only a prophet of God, not his son. Jews believe this also.

jimmy · May 29, 2002

Kyle,

You're right about the Wahhabbi influence on some muslim culture. But that's still just SOME muslims and guess what? They tend to be the poor, disenfranchised, youth who are just living in horrible situations and are looking for both a scapegoat and a solution.

It's a common feeling that leads to extremism of all kinds. That's why we get idiots like the KKK and the Nazis; support for extreemism is bred by that type of lot in life. And it is exploited by those seeking power.

I don't understand why people are singling out MUSLIM extreemism as being the worst. Sure, right now with all that's been happening, its freshest in everyone's mind. But religion has ALWAYS been used as a justification for war. God will be with you in battle against your enemies; those passages appear in the same books that turn around and preach "love for thy neighbor"; the Bible the Koran, the Torah, athe Bagavad-Gita etc...

And PLEASE stop this crap about them "hating our freedoms". This is such an obtuse way of looking at the problem. The terrorist attacks took advantage of our freedoms, yes. But what they HATE is our involvement in what they see as their affairs and the seemingly hegemonic way that we approach our global policy. They simply don't want us involved.

Now, I'm not saying we should or shouldnt' be involved; I go back and forth on that one. But to simply say they hate us for our freedoms is a simple way to put black and white/good and evil thinking into people's minds.

The main problem here is that most of us Americans have about as much an understanding and a good sense of the Muslim faith/people as they do about us. Both sides feed into propaganda and demonize the other. And as you all sit here an condemn them for thinking WE'RE evil, you do the same thing to them!

Attempt to understand something rather than just labeling it without any real amount of experience with it. Both sides are guilty of not doing this.

Slynx · May 29, 2002

I'm not trying to condemn or judge anyone..... I was only speaking from my experience, religion wise. I have a great respect for anyone who stands up for their convictions and what they believe in. I just think there is a better way of getting your point across without killing innocent people or stereotyping all Westerners (not just the US) as children of Satan.

No, I don't know what the solution is. I only wish I did. We could go on and on with theological debate from all sides.... I am always willing to learn. I just piped in with first hand experience, not mere propaganda. Have any of you ever visited a Mosque? If so, I would like to hear of your experience. Maybe your welcome was a little better than mine.

Kyle · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by andwhat
Ok history lesson time. the reason that the Koran speaks of the hatred for jews is that the original 12 Israeli tribes swept over all of arabia and attempted to eradicate all muslims....

I think you'll find that at that particular time, Abraham and his 12 sons, there were no Muslims. Islam starts in the 600's.

Jimmy,

I think you'll find that those 19 guys that brought mayhem and death to thousands a few short months ago are "well-off", educated and very much enfranchised in their cultures! These weren't the "Bahgram Hillbilly's"! As for the masses you are correct, they are easily manipulated however the crux of the problem isn't with a fringe.

Every variation of Muslim faith perports the same goals whether they are Sunni's in Iraq, Shiite's in Iran, Wahhabi's or any other flavor. They have contempt, hatred and a desire to kill any religion that isn't theirs. (And remember that'll go for all you Atheists and Agnostics too.)

We're talking about a large regional Theocracy...Each and every nation that hold to that concept will enforce Shiria! This "Law" as they call it amputates limbs for crimes, stones the women for Adultery, or anyone for disloyalty or disobediance, imprisons or executes anyone who displays, speaks of or demostrates a faith that isn't Islam.

The history of the Religion is it's own worst enemy. They spread out to conquer everything in their paths until they were stopped by the French (must have been different French in those days Vrai), Spain wasn't liberated until the 15th century.

BTW before it comes up again the First Crusade didn't even begin until 1095 AD, 350 years after the invasions of the Muslims.

Jimmy, should we extricate ourselves from these places, to include ending diplomatic ties, so they will feel better? I don't think so, at least not without full scale war breaking out.
They don't want to end influence, they want to be the ones influencing us.
They want our support of Israel to end. Once they eliminate us from the picture they can go back to actively"pushing the Jews into the sea".

Kyle · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by Slynx
... Have any of you ever visited a Mosque? If so, I would like to hear of your experience. Maybe your welcome was a little better than mine.

I'd be surprised if any Mosque would allow them, or anyone not of the Islamic faith, to enter. Most of them won't let in women at all.

Slynx · May 29, 2002

I am a woman, and I was allowed in. Yes, you must wear the hijab, and they have a separate room just for the women. You are instructed NOT to speak, not to look directly into a mans eyes, not to nod, not to.....well, you get my point. This was in South NJ in 95 and I was just feeling it out. I have been to many places of worship in various religions and cultures. This, like I said, was by far the worst. I could FEEL the hatred. Just my opinion. The men were received better, but the message for all was the same....... Maybe not all mosques are as bad, but it was the first and last that I will ever be going to.

Kyle · May 29, 2002

I've experimented around a little in religion myself, in my youth. I never ventured into a Mosque but skimmed over the Qur'an a little.

There wasn't much "peace" in this supposed peaceful religion as far as my impression of its text. However since I'm not a student of the faith it promotes, I'll leave myself open to the "extremely" unlikely possibility that I managed to only find the most heinous of it's passages.

:lol:

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