1 Seal dead, others injured in training accident

[Misfit]

1 SEAL dead, others injured in training accident | Navy Times | navytimes.com

 

[migtig]

Having been to Ft Knox....

May I ask the former military members who read about training exercise deaths, if they aren't wondering what the real story is sometimes?


My condolences to the family of the SEAL and a prayer for the speedy recovery for the injured.

 

[slotpuppy]

Having been to Ft Knox....

May I ask the former military members who read about training exercise deaths, if they aren't wondering what the real story is sometimes?


My condolences to the family of the SEAL and a prayer for the speedy recovery for the injured.

RIP hero, your service to the country is done.

From my experence, there is always the threat of injury or death while training. Its sad but its the nature of the beast.

 

[MadDogMarine]

RIP hero, your service to the country is done.

From my experence, there is always the threat of injury or death while training. Its sad but its the nature of the beast.

I agree. On helicopter maneuvers during training at OCS Quantico Marine Base, we were almost involved in a mid air collision with another chopper. Evasive maneuvers by tipping the chopper at almost 90 deg kept us alive.
Training is dangerous ,especially so, since many times the personnel operating the equipment are also in training(supposedly supervised). This is done to obtain maximum benefit of training resources allocated to the units.

I would hate to think this death was the result of "hot-dogging" a humvee.
Our men and women are in harm's way both while training and in combat.
RIP brother!

 

[GW8345]

You train like you fight, you fight like you train, so therefore there is a great chance for accidents and casualties in training.

 

[itsbob]

Having been to Ft Knox....

May I ask the former military members who read about training exercise deaths, if they aren't wondering what the real story is sometimes?


My condolences to the family of the SEAL and a prayer for the speedy recovery for the injured.

We never, at Brigade level or higher level, went through a live fire training evolution without one death.

Hell, we used to lose people during non-live fire exercises all the time.


Kaloust was killed when his Humvee overturned during a training exercise, according to a Navy news release. The exercise was part of tactical training and the vehicles were traveling in a convoy, but Lloyd declined to give any further details, saying the training is considered sensitive.

I will say, I have to wonder if this was at night?

One, I'm VERY familiar with Ft Knox.. There are a lot of dangerous roads, and tank trails there (used to be the home of Armor).. Hearbreak, Misery and Agony just to name a few..

Secondly, the experience I've had with the Army Green Berets is, they can NOT drive nor have any experience at driving at night with blackout drive lights (required for use on tank trails at night).

 

[itsbob]

You also have to remember Ft Knox was the Armor center since the advent of Armor.. from the 1940's to just a few years ago, every tank the Army has ever bought or designed had has ravaged the training areas there..

MASSIVE ruts, mudholes, and what look like puddles that can swallow up an M1.. (hell, I've got more than one stuck at Ft Knox)..

And if it's bad for tanks and Bradley's you can just imgaine how dangerous it would be for a HMMWV.

We lost a Tank Commander there when they were traversing a training area, and his tank hit an M1 fighting position that the engineers had just dug out the day before. They hit it fast (M1's don't go anywhere slow) and the hole flipped them right over on their top. Smooshed him.

 

[migtig]

That's all I remember about Ft Knox, mud, rain, tanks and greenies out to impress and the McDonalds on the hill.

I just sometimes wonder about the details that don't get released and I think of possible scenarios and then wonder wtf I am doing that. :shrug:

 

[MadDogMarine]

That's all I remember about Ft Knox, mud, rain, tanks and greenies out to impress and the McDonalds on the hill.

I just sometimes wonder about the details that don't get released and I think of possible scenarios and then wonder wtf I am doing that. :shrug:

Anyone having gone thru a military experience, sooner or later has a genuine wonder if the system thinks you are expendable. My awakening came while on Okinawa and my platoon received orders to be in Vietnam in 24 hours as "withdrawal support". We were preparing to go into combat and we were going to be shipped out with the EXACT SAME WORN OUT JUNK we were training with. UFB!.
Like I said it was a rude awakening, and here I thought my men's lives were worth more to uncle sam than worn out junk. Junk, that if failed in combat could have easily resulted in the death of my men and other Marines.
I was wrong!
Fortunately, the withdrawal from Vietnam went on schedule and we were ordered to stand down. From then on I really had a heart felt sorrow for all our troops placed in harm's way without the best of equipment. The sorrow magnified when troops were begging for more armor on their vehicles and soldiers families were conducting fundraisers for more body armor etc.
I know one Marine Sniper that had to raise funds while home on leave so he could have a half way decent scope on his rifle???
No matter how one looks at it, It just isn't right!
Not going to outfit them properly!, Then Damn it-bring them home or you f___kin Pentagon pencil pushers go over there in their place.!

 

[GW8345]

Anyone having gone thru a military experience, sooner or later has a genuine wonder if the system thinks you are expendable. My awakening came while on Okinawa and my platoon received orders to be in Vietnam in 24 hours as "withdrawal support". We were preparing to go into combat and we were going to be shipped out with the EXACT SAME WORN OUT JUNK we were training with. UFB!.
Like I said it was a rude awakening, and here I thought my men's lives were worth more to uncle sam than worn out junk. Junk, that if failed in combat could have easily resulted in the death of my men and other Marines.
I was wrong!
Fortunately, the withdrawal from Vietnam went on schedule and we were ordered to stand down. From then on I really had a heart felt sorrow for all our troops placed in harm's way without the best of equipment. The sorrow magnified when troops were begging for more armor on their vehicles and soldiers families were conducting fundraisers for more body armor etc.
I know one Marine Sniper that had to raise funds while home on leave so he could have a half way decent scope on his rifle???
No matter how one looks at it, It just isn't right!
Not going to outfit them properly!, Then Damn it-bring them home or you f___kin Pentagon pencil pushers go over there in their place.!

Since retiring I have come to the conclusion that the DoD is ran by bean counters, clueless engineers and English majors, those who have been there done that are rarely consulted and even more rarely is their advice listened to and followed.

People who have never put hand to steel think they know more/better than those who have due to their position and a piece of paper.

 

[kom526]

Since retiring I have come to the conclusion that the DoD is ran by bean counters, clueless engineers and English majors, those who have been there done that are rarely consulted and even more rarely is their advice listened to and followed.

People who have never put hand to steel think they know more/better than those who have due to their position and a piece of paper.

Dick Marcinko, founder of Seal Team 6, made these same observations. The best one I think was when stated that he remembers when the Navy was made up of "wooden boats and iron men but turned into iron boots and wooden men."

 

[Lurk]

Having been to Ft Knox....

May I ask the former military members who read about training exercise deaths, if they aren't wondering what the real story is sometimes?


My condolences to the family of the SEAL and a prayer for the speedy recovery for the injured.

With the stuff SEALS do during evaluations and exercises, I'm shocked there aren't more Special Forces deaths than we hear about. Reading about the SEAL who killed Bin Laden and what he had to do to become a SEAL was eye opening. But, yes, with this administration, you have to wonder if a SEAL was killed recently because Obama belatedly decided to send rescuers to Benghazi to pick up an incriminating photo or letter....or an order of falafel

 

[Larry Gude]

With the stuff SEALS do during evaluations and exercises, I'm shocked there aren't more Special Forces deaths than we hear about.

Why?

Their training has been constantly improved, is constantly evaluated and monitored. This is not to say what they do is not dangerous. It is. Very, but, they are being trained by people who do this for a living, active duty SEAL's, not instructors who are really only experienced at, say, boot camp. Their equipment is good. Medical attention is integral. And there is, what, 40 some odd years of experience at this now?

SEAL training before anyone knew what SEAL's were, before they were truly considered special and not just a nuisance to the NAVY, before they got much budgetary attention and just made do with second hand everything, back in the 70's and 80's, now that was surprising more didn't die in training.

Old SEAL's, not all by any means but, some, think training now is too soft. That there should be more of the truly risky crap they had to do back in their day, stuff where, even done properly, was just simply going to get someone hurt or killed every so often in the belief that SEAL training needed to have that edge to it, that near war risk element.

Be all that as it may, it just sucks that one is dead and several others are hurt in a freaking vehicle accident. It doesn't seem very likely that they were doing some sort of special 'SEAL Hummer Superman Team Driving' evolution.

 

[Larry Gude]

Anyone having gone thru a military experience, sooner or later has a genuine wonder if the system thinks you are expendable. My awakening came while on Okinawa and my platoon received orders to be in Vietnam in 24 hours as "withdrawal support". We were preparing to go into combat and we were going to be shipped out with the EXACT SAME WORN OUT JUNK we were training with. UFB!.
Like I said it was a rude awakening, and here I thought my men's lives were worth more to uncle sam than worn out junk. Junk, that if failed in combat could have easily resulted in the death of my men and other Marines.
I was wrong!
Fortunately, the withdrawal from Vietnam went on schedule and we were ordered to stand down. From then on I really had a heart felt sorrow for all our troops placed in harm's way without the best of equipment. The sorrow magnified when troops were begging for more armor on their vehicles and soldiers families were conducting fundraisers for more body armor etc.
I know one Marine Sniper that had to raise funds while home on leave so he could have a half way decent scope on his rifle???
No matter how one looks at it, It just isn't right!
Not going to outfit them properly!, Then Damn it-bring them home or you f___kin Pentagon pencil pushers go over there in their place.!

Well, for one, you are expendable. At the end of any analysis, you are in the military and that is the business of, ultimately, killing and destroying.

For two, I would hope things are a LOT better now than when you were sent to Vietnam.

For three, the military is an extension of our politics and the nature of that dictates that there can't be perfect harmony between what the military can do and what it is being ordered to do.

And, lastly, in our system, is it really solvable, the conflict between, say, the personal interest of some officer who wants to climb the ladder, the various interests of the folks at the bottom who are, if comes to it, cannon fodder, and nature of a civilian controlled military in a free society? I mean, I don't know because I never served so, I am asking and by all means, feel free to point out that I don't know. But I am interested in it. I hate the idea of wasting people through ineptness and poor leadership.

 

[itsbob]

Why?

Their training has been constantly improved, is constantly evaluated and monitored. This is not to say what they do is not dangerous. It is. Very, but, they are being trained by people who do this for a living, active duty SEAL's, not instructors who are really only experienced at, say, boot camp. Their equipment is good. Medical attention is integral. And there is, what, 40 some odd years of experience at this now?

SEAL training before anyone knew what SEAL's were, before they were truly considered special and not just a nuisance to the NAVY, before they got much budgetary attention and just made do with second hand everything, back in the 70's and 80's, now that was surprising more didn't die in training.

Old SEAL's, not all by any means but, some, think training now is too soft. That there should be more of the truly risky crap they had to do back in their day, stuff where, even done properly, was just simply going to get someone hurt or killed every so often in the belief that SEAL training needed to have that edge to it, that near war risk element.

Be all that as it may, it just sucks that one is dead and several others are hurt in a freaking vehicle accident. It doesn't seem very likely that they were doing some sort of special 'SEAL Hummer Superman Team Driving' evolution.

Today's training is probably LESS risky, but training realism changes, and gets riskier when there are real operations and wars going on.

ALL training is inherently risky, and almost all (if not all) major training exercises result in one or more deaths here and abroad. ALL of them are accidental, from somebody not following protocol (like clearing ALL weapons before leaving a range) one second of losing concentration (jumping into a tail rotor in the excitement of a first time ever perfect score on Aerial gunnery tables), to stupid things like falling asleep under a tank to stay dry in a rain storm to have the same tank sink in the mus and suffocate you in your sleeping bag.. OR going to sleep in a training area on the only flat clean ground you can find, to find out it was a "tank trail" and the 12 tanks that ran over you in the night didn't leave much to identify you, or not checking ALL the safeties on a live demolition charge and killing 7 people in a peacetime training accident... VERY few are intentional, like the IOWA 16" gun explosion.

You can NEVER remove all the risk, short of having everyone in a room playing video games.. but we train with live ammunition, real demolition, and real 80 ton tanks capable of going >60MPH cross country..

 

[migtig]

2 FBI agents killed in training accident in Virginia
Excerpt:
Two FBI special agents on the agency's elite Hostage Rescue Team have been killed in a training accident in Virginia, officials said Sunday.

The accident happened off the coast of Virginia Beach on Friday, the FBI's national press office announced in a statement Sunday. No other details were given and the cause is under investigation.

 

[GW8345]

To go along with what Bob said, think of carrier flight operations, most of it is training but it’s still dangerous and people do get hurt/killed.

The flight deck of a carrier is not known as the most dangerous four and half acres in the world for its great view.

 

[Larry Gude]

ALL training is inherently risky, and almost all (if not all) major training exercises result in one or more deaths here and abroad. ALL of them are accidental, from somebody not following protocol (like clearing ALL weapons before leaving a range) one second of losing concentration (jumping into a tail rotor in the excitement of a first time ever perfect score on Aerial gunnery tables), to stupid things like falling asleep under a tank to stay dry in a rain storm to have the same tank sink in the mus and suffocate you in your sleeping bag.. OR going to sleep in a training area on the only flat clean ground you can find, to find out it was a "tank trail" and the 12 tanks that ran over you in the night didn't leave much to identify you, or not checking ALL the safeties on a live demolition charge and killing 7 people in a peacetime training accident... VERY few are intentional, like the IOWA 16" gun explosion.

..

I hope you are working on your memoirs!