seekeroftruth
Well-Known Member
1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
a. 1 Timothy 2:11 Or wife; also in verse 12
b. 1 Timothy 2:12 Or over her husband
c. 1 Timothy 2:15 Greek she
Hear that? That's the sound of Paul stomping around at my toes. The joke's on him... I understand submissive!
I'll start with the easy English commentary this morning..... and boy is it long... long long......
When Christians meet together as a church, they should pray. This is most important. Paul urges them to pray for all people. He uses four different words in this verse. These words help to show what this prayer means.
The first of these words means to make requests to God to meet needs. This is when we desire God to do something to help. We see the needs of people. Then we desire that God will meet their needs. We should pray for them.
Then there is the usual word that is prayer to God. We bring to God all the things that trouble us. And then we ask him to guide us. We think about other people. Then we ask God to help us to know what is right. And we ask him to help us to know what we should do. We ask God for his general blessing and care for the people. We talk to God about them.
The third word means to have a conversation with God and to make an appeal to him. The Lord Jesus gives us the confidence to come to God and to talk with him. We can be like the agents for other people and come to God with an appeal on their behalf. We ask God to help and bless them.
The last word means to thank God. We must always thank God. We thank him for all people. We thank him for all that he has done. Thank him for each of those for whom we have prayed.
They should pray in this manner for all people. He is not asking them to pray for everyone in the world. That would not be possible for them to do. He means that they should pray for all kinds of people. They should pray for the people that they know. And they should pray for the people about whom they know.
All people have done what is wrong. There is no person who has not sinned. The effect of this was to make all people to become like slaves to sin. The Lord Jesus gave himself as the price to free people from sin. He alone was perfect and has not sinned. But he took the punishment of all our sins when he died. He suffered instead of and on behalf of us all. Those who accept that he died for them are set free from their sins.
Paul now talks about how the women should behave in the church meetings. They come together to meet with and worship the Lord. They too should pray but they should not pray aloud.
Women should be modest in both their attitude and in their dress. They should not dress or wear things to attract attention to them. The centre of attention should be the Lord. So they should be modest in their appearance. This does not mean that the women should be dull and not attractive. But they should not display their wealth or beauty. Paul is writing about the excess and the effect of these things.
The women should make themselves attractive by what they do. Not by what they wear. Their lives are more important than the clothes that they put on. Christian women should do good things because they trust in God.
When the Jews came for worship, the women had to be silent. Among the Gentiles, this was not always so. Paul ruled that the women should be quiet. When they came to the meetings, they should be under the authority of the men who taught. They had to listen to them and learn from them.
Paul would not permit a woman to teach in the public meetings of the church. He is not saying that there is no place for a woman to teach. But the task of teaching in the church belonged to the men. For a woman to teach men would be to take the authority from them. The women should keep quiet in the church meetings.
The reason why the man should be the leader over the woman is that God made the man first. After this, he made the woman to be a helper for the man (Genesis 2:20-23). It is not that men are superior to women. They are equal before God. But they are not the same and they have different roles in society. Men and women are equal partners but one must take the lead. The man should take that role for the benefit of both of them.
Women should not try to take the role that God has given to men. The role that he talks about here is to teach in the church meeting. They have other roles that men cannot have. One of those roles is to have children.
After the fall into sin, God told Eve that she would be in pain as she gave birth to children. Eve is the subject of the first part of this verse. She had sinned but God gave the promise of salvation. He would send the Christ (Messiah) to be born of a woman. So, through the birth of Jesus to Mary, God kept his promise. God will save women if they continue to trust in him and love him. They should be pure, holy and modest.
This is from bible-studys.org.Women in the church were living impure and self-centered lives , and that practice carried over into the worship service, where they became distractions. Because of the centrality of worship in the life of the church, Paul calls on Timothy to confront the problem.
These verses give guidelines for the woman’s place in public worship. “With shamefacedness and sobriety” (or, “with modesty and discretion”): The female has a divinely implanted desire to have a good appearance, and Paul is not discouraging this. Rather, he is speaking against extravagant and ostentatious dress.
This verse could be rendered: “But let them dress themselves with that which is proper for women who profess, by their good works, reverence for God.” For such women, proper dress should conform to their Christian testimony and behavior.
“The woman … learn in silence”: Women are not to be the public teachers when the church assembles, but neither are they to be shut out of the learning process. The form of the Greek verb translated “learn” is an imperative: Paul is commanding that women be taught in the church.
That was a novel concept, since neither first century Judaism nor Greek culture held women in high esteem. Some of the women in Ephesus probably overreacted to the cultural denigration they had typically suffered and took advantage of their opportunity in the church by seeking a dominant role in leadership.
“Silence ... subjection” (“to line up under”), were to characterize the role of a woman as a learner in the context of the church assembly. Paul explains his meaning: Women are to be silent by not teaching, and they are to demonstrate submission by not usurping the authority of the pastors or elders.
In public worship services women are to learn “in silence with all” [the fullest] “subjection” to church leadership.
Paul would argue against making Gentiles get circumcised.... but all women had to sit down and shut up [accept in certain circumstances]. Oh brother... men have been clobbering women with this chapter of 1 Timothy 2 for centuries.... and now... well it's not a whole lot better. If women understood this chapter... maybe some of them wouldn't have been so abused over all these centuries.Timothy's mother was a real Christian woman. She received the Gospel... and she raised a good son.... a teen who was clever enough to run a church. Timothy had a lot of respect for his mom and her friends. They taught him everything they knew about Salvation. They taught him to be kind to the widows, orphans, and disadvantaged.
Paul, however, saw a problem brewing. If Timothy respected the women in his life that much... then he might let his Mom step in and help in the main service. She taught Timothy... so it might be natural for her to want to teach others. There were men who would shut the church down if a woman was the preacher.
Women, at the time.... were no better than slaves. They had no standing in the Jewish, Greek, or Roman culture. Women were used for child birth... and for sex. A woman was so worthless.... a man could marry her.... sleep with her.... and then walk out in the square and say "I divorce you" three times and that was it... the women were useless. No one wanted a second hand rose.....
Women weren't allowed in the Jewish sanctuary at all... there was an outer court for women and slaves. Women were for having babies and for sex... that was it.... legally... a woman was no better than an ox. She was property..... Period.
So... first Paul handled the sex part of a woman's role in the church. In Corinth there were women in the church who had been employed at the Temple as a Temple Prostitute. The Temple where the Christian Church rented a room was a brothel... the women in the church were hookers.... and Paul did not want that to affect the other churches. Paul couldn't introduce hookers to the other churches... but he had to deal with this growing problem of the respectable mother of Timothy himself. So... in all the churches... women had to "step back" and let the men do it so as not to upset the Jewish men.... who were still dealing with all their rules form Judaism. Those Jewish men were already upset about uncircumcised men worshiping with them... adding a woman preacher to the mix would cause them to shut the church down.....
Property could not run the church... women were no better than an ox.... an ox cannot be a preacher and neither should a woman.... odd but true.
That remark that Paul made about women dressing so as not to draw attention..... all the churches would read this.... so Paul needed that part in there for the hookers.... they had to change their clothes so that God would be the center of attention. Those Jewish women kept everything covered up.... but the girls in the brothel.... well they were use to letting it all hang out. Paul was saying.... "women... stop distracting the men.... dress down!!!!"
IMHO..... this is not as much about women as it is about the men. If the men really came to the church to worship God... they shouldn't have been gawking at the girls. But since men are driven by an organ... women had to dress down and give men a chance to worship.
As for being quiet in church.... well women would teach the children.... they spent all their time with children so, naturally, they would be teaching the next generation of church members. It was a woman who got them into this sin mess.... God said women would pay for it in child birth... and Mary, a woman, was chosen to bring Christ into the World. God could have just plopped Jesus on earth.... but He chose to have the woman reverse the problem. They didn't need to preach in the church. They were a distraction to the Jewish men because the Jewish men were always in the sanctuary by themselves.
So.... on a personal note.... I've been married 35 almost 36 years.... and I gotta tell ya.... It's a lot easier letting one person take the lead. Both of us are involved in the daily life. He knows what I am thinking almost... we spend so much time together... We are retired and in quarantine. [eye surgeries and eye check ups] So... if a topic comes up and we can't agree on the solution.... it's easier for me to let him handle it. If it's right.... I am the top banana because I let "the smart guy" decide. And if it all goes terribly wrong... I get to say... "told ya so".
We're a lot luckier that Timothy's mom was. We are in a class that is "almost" equal to men. In the US we are more than just property. Don't get all uppity though... we've only had this platform for a few decades.... back in the 1950's a woman couldn't have a credit card or a mortgage without a husband. Birth control and abortions weren't available until the late 1960's and early 1970's. A woman's place really was in the home... barefoot [one income] and pregnant [the pill was called an abortion]. So men have been ruling things for a long time... only now do we have a place on this tenuous platform. Now we can work for a living just like men and we still get to have the babies and let the man make the decisions.
So.... this chapter is about prayer and obedience.... it's a good thing that prayer can be silent.... because women have more time for pray.... "Lord, Help Me" is a familiar prayer for most women.... and this chapter is about the place of women in this world. We are a distraction.... we are supposed to be a helper.
So... that's why Paul tells men that the church can adapt to not requiring a Gentile to be circumcised.... but Paul felt it necessary to say "Women... shut up!"
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