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EmptyTimCup
Guest
Would you pay more to stick it to the Liberals and Obama ....
ImnoMensa
New Member
I do believe the Bush cuts will not be voted on until January .
The Democrats left in the Congress after the landslide victory of the Republicans are going to be a royal pain in the ass for Republicans.
ImnoMensa
New Member
Yes better to pass it on it's own merits than to take the deal as it stands now with all the Dem pork in it.
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
Let's see -
My premiums went way up thanks to the money-saving Obamacare...
No cost of living adjustment this year - or next....
Gas going up.....
...you think I want taxes to go up, to "stick it to the liberals"?
I think they're in deep enough. If they let the tax RATES expire, they are so toast for the next two years.
Funny thing is, if I really believed that ANYONE in Washington would spend responsibly, I'd be willing to pay more. But they have to convince me. Convince me by once, just once, show some backbone and cut spending. Because when you give them a dollar, they spend three and borrow two more.
I can't get over the idea that there are liberals who believe if Washington just had MORE money, they'd do just fine. They won't. Give them ALL your money and they'd STILL overspend it.
My premiums went way up thanks to the money-saving Obamacare...
No cost of living adjustment this year - or next....
Gas going up.....
...you think I want taxes to go up, to "stick it to the liberals"?
I think they're in deep enough. If they let the tax RATES expire, they are so toast for the next two years.
Funny thing is, if I really believed that ANYONE in Washington would spend responsibly, I'd be willing to pay more. But they have to convince me. Convince me by once, just once, show some backbone and cut spending. Because when you give them a dollar, they spend three and borrow two more.
I can't get over the idea that there are liberals who believe if Washington just had MORE money, they'd do just fine. They won't. Give them ALL your money and they'd STILL overspend it.
philibusters
Active Member
The Democrats don't want the Bush Tax Cuts to expire. If they could they would extend all of them, but to the highest tax bracket. However, its politics and nothing can get through Congress because even though Republicans and Democrats agree that that each of the tax brackets under the highest tax bracket should not go up, they disagree on the highest tax bracket and that has prevented them from getting anything through.
How many posters on this board pay some taxes at the highest marginal rate?
How many posters on this board pay some taxes at the highest marginal rate?
Like many small biz owners, I end up paying taxes on all company net profits through my personal income tax return; that is why the 200K threshold becomes important..very important. I'm already 'disincentivized" to push my company to make a profit....increasing the taxes I pay on the money the company earned just makes it that much worse. Its painfull to end up with a decent profit at the end of the year and then have to 'pay' myself more money in salary just to have enough to pay my income tax bill.....its a snake that is swallowing itself tail first.
awpitt
Main Streeter
Interesting, Obamacare hasn't even kicked in yet so that has nothing to do with your premiums at this point. You might want to talk to your employer and ask why premiums went up. My 2011 premiums will remain the same as this year's. The employee/employer split remaind the same as well. Your employer/insurance co could've contained costs if they wanted to.
Most insurance premiums went up and in some localities by a lot; you are in the lucky minority apparently.
Every written justification provided for the increases that has made it to the public domain (and that is a large number of them) has listed the provisions in Obamacare that have already kicked in as at least a 'contributing factor' to requiring the increases.
philibusters
Active Member
Not sure what type of business you are in. In some type of businesses it would fairly easy to invest the money in business expansion that would be deductible as a business expense. However, other types of business, especially service providers are probably harder. For example if you are in retail and you have a lot of money you don't want to pay taxes on, you can expand your store. The expansion costs including the renovating, buying more inventory, and hiring more employees are all business expenses that would be deducted from gross income. Even in retail, problems arise if you maxed out the business potentially locally. For example a pet store may make a tidy prospect, but expanding it to a 100000 sq feet megacenter may not accomplish much if the current pet store already was catering to the entire market so that you can't find new customers.
On the other hand, if you are paying in the highest tax bracket you are likely doing quite well, like well over 300,000 well. Its hard to say for sure because if you are married your wife's income could take you abvoe or below the line, but for example a married couple to be in the highest tax bracket they would have to have income of $372,951+
Unfortunately...the only thing that makes sense for my business is to hold tight and accumulate cash reserves. That plan takes a bigger hit if the rates go up on anything over 200K.
Expansion of any kind is, for my business and very many others in this recession, absolutely the stupidest course of action imagineable. Same goes for taking on any debt; which is why Obama's idiotic focus on 'increasing the availability' of small business loans was doomed from the get go. I saw a survery that clearly indicated that most were just like mine; avoiding debt like the plague. Heck my banker was begging us to borrow some money.
You entirely do not get it. Don't I freaking wish I could actually touch that money. I cannot..not without destroying the company anyway. I only get the joy of paying the income taxes on it; otherwise its very much needed to maintain company operations and meet cash flow needs.
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awpitt
Main Streeter
What provisions do they specify?
I can't help to think that the provisions in question are being used by some to up the premiums and use Obamacare as the scapegoat while the higher ups line their pockets.
I'm just wondering what provisions of Obamacare are forcing these poor companies to riase premiums. So far, the only one I've found is more restriction on what can be purchased OTC using FSAs and HSAs and then there's the 1099 requirement that Obama has already said will likely be removed.
There are literally 100s of explanations like this one floating around the webz. Old news.
I had to chuckle too; anyone with an basic economics/finance background and knowledge of the insurance companies is quite aware that executive compensation has nothing to do with costs or bottom line because the amount is lost in the noise in string of digits to the right of the decimal point. Makes a great diversionary talking point though.
Further, the profit margins that health insurance companies operate on are some of the lowest of all entities in the entire country..single digits and often less than 5%. Compare that with the double-digit profit margins reported by pharmaceutical and med equipment companies, for example. This congress has done a fantastic job of scapegoating the insurance companies, counting on the general population be as willfully ignorant as usual about the real facts of the matter. In fact...the rising costs are coming from practically everywhere else BUT the insurance companies!
MMDad
Lem Putt
The <26 coverage did go into effect and is affecting rates.
Other requirements are also in effect. It's just the coverage of the uninsured that doesn't start until later.
You know, those millions of uninsured who were so important that there wasn't time to read the bill before passing it, but they can still wait years to get coverage.
awpitt
Main Streeter
Thanks for posting that. I see a couple of things there that are already part of my insurance so it doesn't actually show as a change for next year so that's probably why there's no change in premium. The only thing that does change is the adult child age limits. Right now, it's 23 if they're a full time student. The other change is that I won't be able to buy OTC medicines using my HSA account starting on Jan 1st unless a DR writes a prescription for it.
"Impact of Health Care Reform
Provisions in the health care reform law enacted in March 2010 that are expected to contribute to higher plan costs in 2011 include the extension of adult-child coverage to age 26, the prohibition on lifetime limits on the dollar value of coverage, restrictions on annual limits, and (for non-grandfathered plans) a requirement to provide first-dollar coverage for listed preventive services (see Health Reform's Coverage Requirements Expected to Drive Premiums Higher)."
awpitt
Main Streeter
We already pay for the uninsured.
Another problem is that there are not enough tiers for the premium scale. Typically, it's Single, Married, Single w/kids, and Married w/kids. Four levels, that's it. There should be levels to account for number of kids. I pay the Married w/kids rate. I have two kids at home. The problem is that I pay the same premium that another person pays yet they're Married w/4kids. The premuims should recognize that all Families aren't the same and charge accordingly. That's how to recover some of the costs.
MMDad
Lem Putt
Are you saying that a business should expand, buy more inventory, and hire more people just to avoid higher taxes? Does that really make any sense to you? That's the exact opposite of smart business.
The only reason to expand is because you need more room. The only reasons you would increase inventory is if you anticipate demand or you can buy at a low price that you believe will rise and can economically store the product until sale. The only reason to hire is if there is enough work to do to make that person earn you more than they cost.
Tax strategy and creative accounting is a huge part of what's wrong with the tax system. A business owner shouldn't have to base their decisions on unknown future fluctuations in tax rates.
MMDad
Lem Putt
Really? Are you saying that an uninsured person can go in to the urologist and say "I want a vasectomy, bill it to awpitt." Yes, we pay for their emergency care now but that's it. We will be taking from your paycheck in order to give people the ability to run to the doctor every time they have a runny nose and demand antibiotics. The idea of charging larger families more isn't very liberal of you. Are you turning conservative in your old age? In your experience, is a family of eight more or less capable of paying their premiums?
Considering how incredibly detailed and sophisticated are the amortization systems used to set insurance rates...I guarantee you that the only thing accounting for the exact number in each family will do is increase administrative costs. The smaller families would pay less and the larger families more..and the only impact on the insuranace company bottom line is the added cost of maintaining a more complex plan, cost tracking, and billing system.
It could be more fair, from a payers standpoint, if the family with one kid paid less and the family with 6 kids paid more, instead of everyone paying for 1.876522 kids. But overall there would be no savings to be had..only added costs.