$22T...you can't make this up

transporter

Well-Known Member
So over the past few days some really stupid memes are making the rounds comparing the economy in the first year under the previous administration vs the current one. Naturally the Trump cultists think Trump has been some sort of economic miracle....naturally they are too stupid to understand the difference situation of when they entered office. One of the items was about the deficit.

Today this bit of news hit the wires:
That $22 trillion national debt number is huge, but here's what it really means

National debt for the first time passed $22 trillion this week — a big, scary number that really doesn't pose much of a threat now but threatens to in the future.

...


resident Barack Obama's administration racked up nearly as much debt in eight years than in the entire 232-year history of the country before he took office. He entered with $10.6 trillion in total debt and left with the country owing $19.9 trillion. That's an average tab of $1.16 trillion a year.

Under President Donald Trump, the debt also has climbed. The $2.06 trillion increase works out to about $991 billion a year, or slightly less than the pace Obama had set.
The debt soared under Obama due to the need to reinflate a seriously damaged economy. The annual deficit shrunk as the economy recovered and then began expanding again.

Trump entered during a period of extended growth....that has continued. Instead of working towards repairing our national balance sheet, Trump signed off on a massive tax cut AND significant spending increase. The deficit and debt are ballooning under his watch.

Obama's initial deficits were justified...Trump's initial increasing deficits are just irresponsible.
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
As long as our government borrows money from a private cartel, at interest, we will literally never, ever be “out of debt”.

Every dollar in your pocket, in your bank account represents debt.

I suggest you do your part and divest now.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
.... naturally they are too stupid to understand the difference situation of when they entered office.
Anyone or Anything that does not conform to YOUR World View is Either Ignorant, Uneducated or Selfish .....


Obama's initial deficits were justified ... Trump's initial increasing deficits are just irresponsible.
Fantasy, Supposition, Innuendo and Assumption
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
As has always been the case, the Congress can't spend money without the President nor can the President spend money without the Congress.
So then the President refuses to spend the money Congress wants to spend and ....shutdowns occur. Lets not kid ourselves here.
 
As has always been the case, the Congress can't spend money without the President nor can the President spend money without the Congress.
Baloney. Congress spends money all the time without the President. What was the slush fund to pay off Congressional harassment victims? Oh, I'm sure that Congress appropriated the money under a different title, but they turned it into a slush fund without any help. Without a line item veto, the Congress can pad almost any budget and make it hard for a president to root out the pork that is earmarked for Congressional allies (aka lobbyists), friends, family, and the hometown folks.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Only a complete idiot would suggest that the President has much say over annual budgets. The Prez can propose a budget..it is always ignored in its entirety by Congress. Congress puts forth a budget for the President's signature and he can sign it..or not. This is only hard to understand by the uneducated and those on the left. But I repeat myself.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Ehhh, so what? 22 trillion. 100 trillion. 999 trillion. Doesn't matter. It is mathematically impossible to repay it anyway. If all the debt in circulation were to be paid back all at once, not only would there be no money, currency, in circulation, in bank accounts, in your pocket, under your bed or in the folds of your couch or that unreachable space between your driver seat and that damnable hump, there would still be more left owed.

Look at it like this. Lets say there is a total amount of debt owed, which includes all governments, mortgages, car loans, student loan debt, credit cards, etc., of $200 trillion. And yet, in circulation, the total money supply in banks, your pocket, etc., is $175 trillion. Leaving a deficit of $25 trillion. Then what? How is that balance paid back with absolutely no more money, aka Federal Reserve Notes and coin, in circulation? Other than giving all our assets, including our homes, our property, our cars, our roads and interstate system, all government buildings to the bankers as payment. The answer? Borrow more. And that is in fact exactly what happens. It is the only, the undeniably only way, to keep this fiat currency debt based monetary system from falling of the rails.

At present, today, there is only, currently, about $44.7 trillion in money. That number includes all money in banks, central and otherwise, demand deposits, physical currency, money outside the US, etc. ie all money, digital or physical. ie money that is convertible to cash or its equivalents, aka an asset. Now contrast that to the actual debt across all sectors, ie., the overall total amount of debt to include all US governments, businesses and private persons, ie every single dollar that must be paid back, aka a liability, which currently stands at about $71 trillion.

So ...
$71 trillion owed in total as debt of some kind vs
$44 trillion of actual money in existence means
-$27 trillion deficit.

Funny. That I'm only $2 trillion off from my example above. Totally unintended. Solely by chance.

So, really, a trillion here a trillion there, doesn't mean a thing. We will always be in perpetual, never to be paid off, debt, publicly and privately. The system is/was setup that way. To enslave a Nation to the bankers.

And don't you think for an instant that just because you're a good smart thrifty go-to-church-every-Sunday kinda person that abhors personal debt, by having no credit card payments, or an auto loan, or a you paid your mortgage off years ago, and that you don't owe any entity anything. Because that's not really true. You see, those property taxes you pay. (Renters, it's part of your rent payment.) And those sales taxes you pay. And all those other taxes, and the taxes you pay disguised as fees that you pay to your government for you driver's license to your dog's collar tag. A portion goes to paying back the debt and interest for loans taken out in your name by your governments. In addition, to having been built into the price of goods that you buy, a portion goes to paying back the debt and interest that the business took out buy a new delivery truck or replace needed equipment or buy the land and/or to needing to build a new office building or store. Either way, you are paying debt back. Some by choice, as with shopping, others with no choice, as from government selling bonds to taxing your wages and income and more.

Debt -- it is inescapable. By design. To keep every body working to enrich the bankers from your labor and the sweat of your brow.
Now doesn't that just give you the warm fuzzies?
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
It's funny these people like Tranny who are worried about the debt were quiet when Obama was president.

All of a sudden they are having diarrhea over Trumps spending.
 

David

Opinions are my own...
PREMO Member
Patron
The really interesting thing about this out of control national debt is that it is going to impose a national tax that absolutely no one is going to be able to avoid. Not the right, not the left, not the nice people, not the mean people, not the Christians, not the atheists, no one.

Run away inflation will tax every person and the poor and the middle class living paycheck to paycheck will suffer the most. The savers will learn that no good deed goes unpunished and the gold and silver stackers will see if their hedge bets pay off. We've already seen a significant inflation in essentials, like food, over the past nearly 2 decades due to this. The rich are already invested in inflation proof hedges, like expensive real estate (why do you think the price of the luxury living has been skyrocketing in recent years), precious metals and precious art.

The only question I have is how bad is it going to get. Are things so bad that we'll have the economic collapse that doomsdayers have been predicting for the past 15 years? I was a kid in the late 70's when that wave of inflation hit -- the one that was due to Nixon taking us off the gold standard and the large debt they ran up with the Viet Nam War. I still remember my single mother of 4 saying something to the effect, "Just when you start to get ahead, they do this to you." Only it is going to be far worst this time. In those days, we still had manufacturing jobs in the USA.
 

David

Opinions are my own...
PREMO Member
Patron
As has always been the case, the Congress can't spend money without the President nor can the President spend money without the Congress.
I think a lot of the spending is already baked in. See how much is for interest on the debt, Social Security and Health Care, and of course the military machine. The rest of it is almost noise.

134982
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...
The only question I have is how bad is it going to get. Are things so bad that we'll have the economic collapse that doomsdayers have been predicting for the past 15 years? I was a kid in the late 70's when that wave of inflation hit -- the one that was due to Nixon taking us off the gold standard and the large debt they ran up with the Viet Nam War. I still remember my single mother of 4 saying something to the effect, "Just when you start to get ahead, they do this to you." Only it is going to be far worst this time. In those days, we still had manufacturing jobs in the USA.
From the very first, to the very last, (to be determined), every fiat currency ever enacted, in whatever part of the world, in what ever country, has failed. Every single one. We, the USA, will be no exception. Everything, the fixes, the solutions, the work arounds, decreasing taxes, increasing taxes, increasing spending, reducing spending, creating welfare programs, food stamps, social security, is all smoke and mirrors to the actual problem ... The Federal Reserve banking system. As long as we continue to operate within the Federal Reserve banking system, owned and operated by for-profit private banks, nothing, absolutely nothing, no policy changes, no program, no scheme, no law, no regulation, no political party, will remedy the problems in this Nation. Nothing. Except a return to the gold, and silver, standard. Aka Constitutional money.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...
The only question I have is how bad is it going to get.
Sorry. Forgot to answer your question. It will get worse. It will get bad. It will get very very bad. But it does not happen in an instant, such as overnight or a week or a month. Just take a look down in South America at Venezuela. Yup. That is what bad to worse or worse to very very bad looks like. At present their inflation rate is 254.9%. But also remember Argentina. After the same chaos that Venezuela is going through, their fiat reserve currency system failed. As well as Zimbabwe and Peru and Chile, Hungary, Angola, Yugoslavia, Belarus, Greece, and the Wiemar Republic after WWl. All with private central banks. And guess what replaced those failed fiat currencies? You guessed it. Another fiat currency.

Compare the way things are now to 10 years ago. 20 years ago. You can see the bad to worse, or worse to bad, right here, right now, in our Nation. Yet, when shown on TV, when the MSM shares with us the images and stories, such as the rat infestation and homelessness in Los Angeles or San Francisco, it is marginalized and explained away as something else other than what is the root cause. Sure, it's fun to blame democrats, liberals, progressives, republicans, whomever the bogeyman is at the moment, for the cause of the problems. You think it's bad now. Just give it another 5 or 10 years. You ain't seen nothing yet. We are teetering, at present. Also, ask yourself this: If, "they", say gold is not a good investment, why are Nations buying and hording? Why do the wealthy continue to buy physical gold and take possession. Why do banks keep gold, and silver?

The short of it is this. Everything you've been told is a lie. The Private Central banks control this Nation. They create the boom times and the depressions, and profit from each. They control which businesses/industries will grow, and which ones are to be destroyed. They profit on the growth, and they profit on the decline. They never lose. Because they are the house. And the house always wins.

About that lying part also. Your history teacher lied. The revolutionary war wasn't just fought over minor reasons such as religious freedom, a mean 'ol King, or any of that nonsense. The major prime reason? It was fought over money and who controlled it. The colonies were forced to use the King's money, which was through England's central bank, the Bank of England. This policy was brought up, pushed on to the King by way of Parliament, by the Bank of England. Which meant that the King's taxes had to be paid in the King's money. How did the colonies get this money? Through trade and loans. Prior to being forced to use the King's money, the colonies used their own regulated coins and paper currency, in addition to commodity money. Which the 1764 Currency Act forbade from ever issuing and using again. Everything was peachy before being forced to use the King's money and then to be taxed on everything as well, in addition to interest being paid on loans, which reduced the money in circulation, causing over time, what? Yup, you guessed it. Poverty, homelessness, crime, discontent, division, etc., etc., etc.. Then came the Declaration of Independence. And that is the facts.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
Then why is Trump being blamed exclusively?
He's not being blamed exclusively. But since you ask, it's easy for the president to be credited or blamed for a situation because, well, he's the "captain" of the ship. I've grown to hate the Dem leadership over their failures through this whole ordeal; however, Trump has been all over the place on this whole stupid thing. It's been kinda hard for the Congress to put a deal together when the goal posts keep moving.
 
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