Allow Evil to Exist

2lazy2P

nothing unreal exists
The Fall of Satan: Rebels in the Garden

Amazon.com: The Fall of Satan: Rebels in the Garden (9780890516065): Bodie Hodge: Books

Why would God, who is not evil, allow evil to continue to exist?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
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"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while man slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it haves tares?' He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn" ' " (Matthew 13:24-30)<o:p></o:p>
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So, for a short time, evil is permitted until the final "harvest." If one uproots the "tares" (non-Christians) then you may damage the "wheat" that is growing (Christians). Consider for a moment that there are Christians who come out of non-Christian families. If the non-Christians were uprooted, then so would those Christians before they would have ever been born. Those who have received the gift of eternal life look forward to the time when we join God in heaven (wheat in my barn) - a place where there will be no evil (Revelation 21:27). <o:p></o:p>
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This six-thousand-year-old cursed world (so far) is only a blip compared to eternity. So from the big picture, this relatively brief time that evil is permitted is not much at all.<o:p></o:p>

Take this as you will - thought it was a pretty interesting perspective on an old question though.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
The Fall of Satan: Rebels in the Garden

Amazon.com: The Fall of Satan: Rebels in the Garden (9780890516065): Bodie Hodge: Books

Take this as you will - thought it was a pretty interesting perspective on an old question though.

Yes, the Holy Bible has made it clear that this world is cursed and each individual is given the choice whether to love this world or love God.

The curse places all mankind on "death row" - being spiritually separated from God and sentenced to eternal death. (For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God)

HOWEVER, it is only through God's Grace that He has provided Divine Pardon and Forgiveness that can only be received through turning from this world and placing sincere faith in the Atoning Blood of the New Testament Jesus Christ. (John 3:16) There is nothing we can do to "earn" or merit a place in Heaven.

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)
 

2lazy2P

nothing unreal exists
Yes, the Holy Bible has made it clear that this world is cursed and each individual is given the choice whether to love this world or love God.

The curse places all mankind on "death row" - being spiritually separated from God and sentenced to eternal death. (For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God)

HOWEVER, it is only through God's Grace that He has provided Divine Pardon and Forgiveness that can only be received through turning from this world and placing sincere faith in the Atoning Blood of the New Testament Jesus Christ. (John 3:16) There is nothing we can do to "earn" or merit a place in Heaven.

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)

Thanks for the Sermon - was looking towards more of the Evil allowed to exist along side good out of the exert. Weird how you took this as a moment to save lost souls.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Thanks for the Sermon - was looking towards more of the Evil allowed to exist along side good out of the exert. Weird how you took this as a moment to save lost souls.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>

C'mon, you did say to "take this as you will" so I took the opportunity to share that each person starts out as a "tare" but that God gives the "tares" an opportunity to become "wheat".

This will continue until the day of Harvest.
 
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Starman3000m

New Member
Just the old why would something so good allow/create something so bad.

So you could have a free-will choice of which side you personally want to be on with your acquired knowledge of Good and Evil.

John, Chapter 3:

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
 
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2lazy2P

nothing unreal exists
Do good and evil exist in a vacuum? Or does it exist because there are beings capable of committing one or the other?

IMHO, in dealing with Genesis, evil exist because it was created to allow to. Satan did not bring evil into this world, he just so happened to recieve it from his creator. Satan telling the serpent to go talk to Eve did not make her evil. She already had sin in her. Eve telling Adam to take a bite out of the apple did not make him evil. He already had sin in him as well. It was something created along with everything else in the first six days.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
IMHO, in dealing with Genesis, evil exist because it was created to allow to. Satan did not bring evil into this world, he just so happened to recieve it from his creator. Satan telling the serpent to go talk to Eve did not make her evil. She already had sin in her. Eve telling Adam to take a bite out of the apple did not make him evil. He already had sin in him as well. It was something created along with everything else in the first six days.

Satan is a created being who was originally given the attributes of free-will and who was regarded as the leader from among a special order of angelic beings created by God.

While the rest of God's angelic hosts were created to be perfectly obedient in worshipping and praising God eternally, the order of angels from which Satan originated were given the opportunity to make choices of their own - the most important of which was to willfully worship and give complete allegience to God, the Divine Creator.

However, through free-will and pride, Satan wanted to be the one to receive praise and worship and believed he could be like the Most High God. Satan was then able to influence one-third of the angels to launch an attempted mutiny against God. The war in heaven resulted in Satan and his minions being cast out. Satan is a defeated enemy who continually seeks to defeat humans in this life and keep them from coming to the Truth of God's Plan of Salvation for their souls.

The sin committed was that of willful disobedience to God's Authority.
That's what Satan was first able to convince Eve to do - willfully disobey God's Authority - and Adam followed suit.

Mankind has inherited the curse of Adam and Eve's transgression against God which has resulted in spiritual death, separation from God and being easily influenced by Satan's deceptions. Yet, God loves mankind enough to offer a way for reconciliation, forgiveness, cleansing of sin and eternal life with Him. Renouncing Satan's influence, repenting, and placing faith and trust in The New Testament Jesus Christ is the way. He is the Tree of Life.

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)
 
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2lazy2P

nothing unreal exists
Satan is a created being who was originally given the attributes of free-will and who was regarded as the leader from among a special order of angelic beings created by God.

While the rest of God's angelic hosts were created to be perfectly obedient in worshipping and praising God eternally, the order of angels from which Satan originated were given the opportunity to make choices of their own - the most important of which was to willfully worship and give complete allegience to God, the Divine Creator.

However, through free-will and pride, Satan wanted to be the one to receive praise and worship and believed he could be like the Most High God. Satan was then able to influence one-third of the angels to launch an attempted mutiny against God. The war in heaven resulted in Satan and his minions being cast out. Satan is a defeated enemy who continually seeks to defeat humans in this life and keep them from coming to the Truth of God's Plan of Salvation for their souls.

The sin committed was that of willful disobedience to God's Authority.
That's what Satan was first able to convince Eve to do - willfully disobey God's Authority - and Adam followed suit.

Mankind has inherited the curse of Adam and Eve's transgression against God which has resulted in spiritual death, separation from God and being easily influenced by Satan's deceptions. Yet, God loves mankind enough to offer a way for reconciliation, forgiveness, cleansing of sin and eternal life with Him. Renouncing Satan's influence, repenting, and placing faith and trust in The New Testament Jesus Christ is the way. He is the Tree of Life.

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)

Yup, sounds like the same things I read.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
IMHO, in dealing with Genesis, evil exist because it was created to allow to. Satan did not bring evil into this world, he just so happened to recieve it from his creator. Satan telling the serpent to go talk to Eve did not make her evil. She already had sin in her. Eve telling Adam to take a bite out of the apple did not make him evil. He already had sin in him as well. It was something created along with everything else in the first six days.

Satan didn’t bring evil into the world. I happen to think good and evil are just the nature of God’s creation. Not that God purposely created both to trip us up with choices. It’s the nature of this creation; everything having its opposite. Hot/cold, male/female, up/down, left/right, happy/sad, etc… If there is good it only makes sense that there would be its opposite; otherwise how can you distinguish that good exists without its opposite? You can’t call your right arm a ‘right arm’ if there isn’t a left as its opposite. So I don’t see it so much as God creating it for any purpose other than by God’s nature these things must exist.

However, good or evil don’t exist outside of conscious beings having the choice between the two. They can’t exist in a vacuum.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
But here is the question that comes to mind for me:

When God fulfills His will through the second coming will evil cease to exist and man have no free will anymore? If man does still have free will, then wont we still have the choice between good and evil? Will this this be a time in which God cleanses the earth (as He with Noah) and the cycle begin again? Or will free will end?
 
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hvp05

Methodically disorganized
When God fulfills His through the second coming will evil cease to exist and man have no free will anymore? If man does still have free will, then wont we still have the choice between good and evil? Will this this be a time in which God cleanses the earth (as He with Noah) and the cycle begin again? Or will free will end?
Interesting thoughts.




I think it's all very convenient; a tidy explanation for all that's wrong with us. All civilizations have had some sort of proposal in this vein, and this one is no different.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
But here is the question that comes to mind for me:

When God fulfills His will through the second coming will evil cease to exist and man have no free will anymore? If man does still have free will, then wont we still have the choice between good and evil? Will this this be a time in which God cleanses the earth (as He with Noah) and the cycle begin again? Or will free will end?

Good questions. Let's take this step by step according to what is written in prophecy. In brief:

Whatever free will one is given in Heaven will be as God wishes but it will no longer be one where sin reigns for we will be made perfect by God, a new creation, and no longer bent on turning against God in disobedience. That was the original sin; Disobedience.

First, however: The next prophetic event to happen will be the establishment of a One World Government/Religion system (7-year period) controlled by antichrist and the false prophet. (Rev. 19)

According to the Holy Bible, Jesus returns (Second Advent) to establish God's Kingdom on earth after defeating antichrist in the war of Armageddon. (Rev. 16)

At that point, Satan will be bound for one thousand years and the world will be completely free of sin and Satan's influence during that time. No one will be of the mind to do wrong and there will be God's Love, peace and harmony among all people and all nations. No more wars. This is the prophetic time when swords are turned into plowshares and where the wolf and the lamb cozy up without incident. (Rev.20; Isaiah 11:6; Isaiah 65:25; Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3)

Throughout this time, Jesus rules from Jerusalem. People will no longer ask one another if they know God for all will know that He is Lord and He is here. People will gather to worship God in Jerusalem.
(Jeremiah 31:34; Hebrews 8:11)

No doubt people will have a free-will to choose basic things like what clothes to wear, shoes to put on, places to travel to BUT there will be no thought of turning against God because all will believe in Him and know that He is here on earth. It will be during this period of 1000 years where we will finally have a perfect and peaceful rule upon the earth under God's rule; not man's rule. This would be a time when sin and disobedience to God will not even come to mind at all.

THEN: According to prophecy: At the end of the Millennial reign, Satan will be turned loose for a short while and allowed to run rampant in the world. Shortly afterward the war of Gog and Magog takes place where God totally defeats Satan and puts an end to evil for eternity. (Revelation 20:3)

Finally: God's White Throne Judgment. This is where Satan, his angels and the souls of mankind that he caused to blaspheme and turn against Christ will be judged for their deeds and unbelief and cast into the eternal lake of fire. (Revelation 20)

Those souls whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life will escape the wrath of God's Judgment and they will live and reign forever with God in a New Heaven and a New Earth. (Rev. 21)

A person's free-will to renounce Satan, repent and accept Christ as Lord and Saviour is in the here and now.

Revelation 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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2lazy2P

nothing unreal exists
Throughout this time, Jesus rules from Jerusalem. People will no longer ask one another if they know God for all will know that He is Lord and He is here. People will gather to worship God in Jerusalem.
(Jeremiah 31:34; Hebrews 8:11)

I thought I read somewhere that we are still waiting for Israel’s laws to change so that way a Temple can be built for Jesus to rule from. Which religion was that? Something about currently, religious conversion is not allowed within Israel. And until this specific religon was allowed to start spreading there faith within the country a temple cannot be built until this happens, and therefore the Second Coming was still on hold.
 

hvp05

Methodically disorganized
Whatever free will one is given in Heaven will be as God wishes but it will no longer be one where sin reigns for we will be made perfect by God, a new creation, and no longer bent on turning against God in disobedience.
2Lazy asked about the possibility of sin occurring in heaven once, and I thought it was an intriguing question, but I never saw an answer.

So why will things be different in the future heaven than they were when heaven was created - the time when Satan rebelled? Why did God allow total free will at first but won't the next time around? As Psy alluded to earlier, if free will is removed or restricted does that not indicate an imbalance?


Throughout this time, Jesus rules from Jerusalem. People will no longer ask one another if they know God for all will know that He is Lord and He is here.
Again, why will that be different from the first time around? Because of this period of peace? Seems odd that Jesus performed miracles the first time and people doubted but Jesus will supposedly perform more miracles in the future but no one will doubt then.


According to prophecy: At the end of the Millennial reign, Satan will be turned loose for a short while and allowed to run rampant in the world. Shortly afterward the war of Gog and Magog takes place where God totally defeats Satan and puts an end to evil for eternity.
Satan must be the biggest idiot ever to challenge God despite knowing he will lose.

What if Satan changed his mind and repented?
 

Starman3000m

New Member
I thought I read somewhere that we are still waiting for Israel’s laws to change so that way a Temple can be built for Jesus to rule from. Which religion was that? Something about currently, religious conversion is not allowed within Israel. And until this specific religon was allowed to start spreading there faith within the country a temple cannot be built until this happens, and therefore the Second Coming was still on hold.

Actually, this is where the prophesied rise of antichrist comes onto the scene. In the future, there will be a world leader who is able to negotiate a peace-pact between Israel and the Muslims, albeit a false peace that only lasts for 3 1/2 years. The Jewish people will accept this individual, even believing that he is their awaited Moshiach who makes it possible for the Third Temple to be constructed on the Temple Mount. This individual will gain the trust and admiration of many world leaders and unsaved people who are clamoring now for peace at any cost.

There are some thoughts that the peace-pact will include the ecumenical movement that seeks to bring "peace and safety" in this world and where all people can worship together in Jerusalem. The Muslim Mosque (Dome of the Rock) will not necessarily need to be destroyed as that would incite more violence. Instead, the Jewish Third Temple would be allowed to be built next to the Mosque, giving the Jewish people the opportunity to reinstate Temple worship and animal sacrifices as in days of old. Things will appear fine and dandy for a short while.

After the Jewish Temple has been constructed the antichrist steps into the Temple and proclaims himself to be "God," requiring reverence and worship of the Jews and all mankind. (Ref. abomination of desolation) This takes place at mid-point of the 7 year period and for the following 3 1/2 years the Great Tribulation occurs. That is the time when the world is commanded to take the "mark of the beast" in order to buy or sell and where Jews who do not accept the antichrist will be persecuted and killed, and Christians will be beheaded for their faith in Jesus Christ and refusing to accept the mark of the beast. This period leads up to the battle of Armageddon, when the New Testament Jesus returns (Second Advent) Satan is bound for a thousand years and then Jesus sets up His Millennial Reign from Jerusalem.

Interesting times ahead.
 
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This_person

Well-Known Member
I think it's all very convenient; a tidy explanation for all that's wrong with us. All civilizations have had some sort of proposal in this vein, and this one is no different.
I've always found it a silly question - why there's good and evil together. It's like asking why there's an up and a down: how do you have one without the other?

The only way to know that good exists, and to experience the good, is to have bad exist as well. If all that existed was good, how would you know it was good and not just bland-normal?

Silly question to me.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Good questions. Let's take this step by step according to what is written in prophecy. In brief:

I guess for you that was brief. :lol:

No doubt people will have a free-will to choose basic things like what clothes to wear, shoes to put on, places to travel to BUT there will be no thought of turning against God because all will believe in Him and know that He is here on earth. It will be during this period of 1000 years where we will finally have a perfect and peaceful rule upon the earth under God's rule; not man's rule. This would be a time when sin and disobedience to God will not even come to mind at all.

You know I'm talking about free will to choose between good and evil; not things. :ohwell:

When all is said and done, it's my impression those that chose to believe wont have that free will anymore. The choice between good and evil will be gone. The desire to do evil will be gone. The nature of things will not be the same.

Things WILL be just as everyone that questions God's reasoning; no more evil. So my question was to answer the question "why did God created evil" by pointing out that this day will come. But for now we have to deal with the nature of how God made things now. That's just the way it is.
 
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