The Cyprus “deposit haircut”

cwo_ghwebb

No Use for Donk Twits
In the ongoing debate over how to deal with our national debt there have been plenty of idea put forward, but not much action. Many plans focus on the idea of everybody pitching in together to combat the problem, but here’s one idea which likely never occurred to you. How about if the government just went around and confiscated up to 10% of everyone’s life savings to help cover the gap? What could possibly go wrong? We might be about to find out by studying the situation in Cyprus.
Cyprus’ savers bear brunt of unprecedented bailout

The eastern Mediterranean island becomes the fifth country after Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain to turn to the euro zone for financial help during the region’s debt crisis.

In a radical departure from previous aid packages – and one that gave rise to incredulity and anger across the country – euro zone finance ministers forced Cyprus’ savers to pay up to 10 percent of their deposits to raise almost 6 billion euros.

Parliament was due to meet on Sunday to vote on the measure, and approval was far from assured.
The Cyprus “deposit haircut” « Hot Air

That type of confiscation couldn't possibly happen in the U.S.! :sarcasm:

I have a feeling that after the run on the banks Parliament will not pass this measure.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
The Cyprus “deposit haircut” « Hot Air

That type of confiscation couldn't possibly happen in the U.S.! :sarcasm:
.

Because I am old and have this irrational interest in politics, there's a lot of crap I have seen and heard and way back in my day, I think it was 1984, in a speech at, IIRC, the Dem convention, Jesse Jackson spoke of the need to fix the inner cities. Nothing new there. He spoke of the problem, no money to do it. Nothing new there. No banks willing to loan, no news there.

Then, he said about $1 trillion was needed to do it, an, at the time, eye and ear catching number. Then, he threw it out there; that there was about 1 trillion in private savings not doing anything and that we ought to just take that money and use it to do it.

Then, he reasoned it out. We are gonna spend the money (that amount) indirectly anyway on welfare and so forth. What if we were to use it to FIX the problem, create the economic conditions in the cities that would then provide the jobs and the commerce to eliminate the need for welfare, arguing out that the basic economy of the inner cities, food, clothing, goods and services, was plenty large enough for these communities to become self sustaining if only we could get them over the hump, so to speak, and just build the necessary infrastructure, the shops and so forth and let 'er rip.

Now, I will tell you, obviously, things aren't that simple and he didn't discuss, even for a second, what happens to all the business's now supplying those goods and services but, there was a symmetry and logic to it from THEIR, inner city folks, view point; we are spending enough money to build local economies, heal the inner cities, why shouldn't OUR money stay home?

So, it was stunning, just confiscate people's savings. It was thought out and, assuming it all magically worked, which isn't how it works, it can't, BUT, again, from their viewpoint, the system being rigged, banks not wanting to loan because of the white man rules, because of lack of collateral, lack of power to make changes that would necessary TO collateralize loans, the catch 22 of 'the system' and 'the man'.

Now, I will say I remember people laughing about his naivete, his shear lack of a single clue of how and why a given company, a plumber, carpenter, utilities, insurance, how all that hum drum, boring stuff works, the micro, but, again, he was directly addressing the problem; you complain about welfare, loan us the money to get out of this vicious cycle YOU control, and we won't have need of your money anymore, the macro. But, all in all, it was, at the time, unthinkable.

Then, along comes TARP. And we do the unthinkable. We bail out people who HAVE money. We pull the chestnuts out of the fire of the people who run the catch-22 who effed up. We used other people's money to fix a problem.

And, of course, TARP didn't fix anything. It made things worse. Far worse. And the biggest joke of it all; at least Jesse's plan made SOME sense.

Think about that for a few minutes. :jameo:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
There would be riots if they tried something like that here. There would also be runs on banks and folks would be hiding money in their mattresses. This country would go into another depression.

It can't happen here. TARP saw to that and Dodd/Frank saw to that. Too Big To Fail is institutionalized here, systemically critical institutions. There is NO need to confiscate ANYTHING. At least not directly. You just keep printing money. You take it, a billion at a time, from the next generation.

We just keep printing money so there never is this problem.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Cyprus to raid private bank deposits, on orders from European Union.


Basically, it goes like this: the EU bails out Cypriot banks to the tune of 10 billion euros, in partial exchange for a 6.75% to 9.9% raid on Cypriot personal accounts (which is supposed to net about 5.8 billion euros in revenue), collectable probably now Tuesday*. See also here, here, and here.

Naturally, the subjects of Cyprus (I can’t in either good conscience or grammar call them “citizens”) are freaking out and trying to yank what money they can out of the banks; many wonder if the rest of the EU is going to follow suit. Should the average European be worried? Well, Walter Russell Mead (who is not entirely sympathetic to the Cypriots, given that they’ve been operating as money launderers to various unsavory Russians for some time) notes this:

The European financial authorities are swearing up and down that they will never, ever do anything like this again and that the rest of Europe’s banks are as sound as the euro itself, but that of course is exactly what they would say if they were planning to take much of your money away.
 

Vince

......
It can't happen here. TARP saw to that and Dodd/Frank saw to that. Too Big To Fail is institutionalized here, systemically critical institutions. There is NO need to confiscate ANYTHING. At least not directly. You just keep printing money. You take it, a billion at a time, from the next generation.

We just keep printing money so there never is this problem.
I'm not a financial genius, but Larry, sooner or later our money won't be worth squat. What then? About the only thing it'll be good for is starting a fire and then you still have to have matches.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
..... I think it was 1984, in a speech at, IIRC, the Dem convention, Jesse Jackson spoke of the need to fix the inner cities.

Then, he said about $1 trillion was needed to do it,

So, it was stunning, just confiscate people's savings. It was thought out and, assuming it all magically worked, which isn't how it works, it can't, BUT, again, from their viewpoint, the system being rigged,


Key points ..... quoted


isn't this the same tired old argument Occupy was making


BANKS are sitting on Billions in CASH, NOT doing ANYTHING with the Money, 'we' should confiscate it, it put it to good use, i.e. pay off their student loans for Phd's in 'Women's Studies' and give the rest away in the form of MORE Social Programs




seems to me, it is the same old Marxist Income Re-Distribution theme going back to the 1960's
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I'm not a financial genius, but Larry, sooner or later our money won't be worth squat. What then? About the only thing it'll be good for is starting a fire and then you still have to have matches.

I'm not a genius of any sort, so there. :lmao:

Think about what you are saying; 'won't be worth squat'. TARP and Dodd/Frank, the acceptance of Quantitative easing, you and I are using the logic of old people, of a time when there were winners and losers and 1+1 = 2.

That is all gone now. The government now has levers of power to control the whole thing. Too Big To Fail is what it sounds like; heads they win, tails we lose. The key is that the game, for them, keeps going. That they control the chairs AND the music. QE is THE ultimate bubble; it is the bubble the markets rest on AND it is CONTROLLED by the government! This is why Obama's failures didn't cost him the election; everyone who SHOULD have vigorously voted against him had their 401k's, the personal wealth to look at; it rebounded. Do we really wanna change now? The DOW is back and has been coming back. The economy IS a wreck but, with a twist; the government just keeps pumping juice into it and the people are soothed.

You try and think through any scenario, any reckoning, and figure out how it's all gonna fall apart IF the government has the power to prevent it.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Key points ..... quoted

isn't this the same tired old argument Occupy was making

BANKS are sitting on Billions in CASH, NOT doing ANYTHING with the Money, 'we' should confiscate it, it put it to good use, i.e. pay off their student loans for Phd's in 'Women's Studies' and give the rest away in the form of MORE Social Programs

seems to me, it is the same old Marxist Income Re-Distribution theme going back to the 1960's

How is that any different than TARP? TARP was re-distributionist only, instead of taking from the rich to give to the poor, we took from everyone to give to the rich.

It's worth understanding the motivations of Marxists. They feel the system is rigged.

Because it is.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
How is that any different than TARP? TARP was re-distributionist only, instead of taking from the rich to give to the poor, we took from everyone to give to the rich.

It's worth understanding the motivations of Marxists. They feel the system is rigged.

Because it is.


sure TARP Rigged the system, but 'Too Big To FAIL' was a recent item ...... Marxist have been whining for 'take from the rich give to me' for decades ....


all TARP did was socialize the failures, while banks keep the profits ....




you completely missed my POINT

the players change .... the confiscation message NEVER changes


MM in his WI State Capitol steps speech,


there is not problem with money, there is LOTS of money, it is just NOT in your pockets .......

1st 90 sec:

 

tommyjo

New Member
How is that any different than TARP? TARP was re-distributionist only, instead of taking from the rich to give to the poor, we took from everyone to give to the rich.

It's worth understanding the motivations of Marxists. They feel the system is rigged.

Because it is.

Your points on TARP, as usual, are wrong. I am not sure you have ever made a correct post regarding TARP.

First off, it was passed in 2008. You constantly equate it to Obama.

Second, most of the banks who received money have paid it back with interest. There are some banks that have still not paid it back...most of those are small community type banks.

Third, and this is the most important point you fail to understand, TARP (and the myriad of other emergency programs instituted by the Fed) was critical to saving our banking system. Not just the rich, THE ENTIRE SYSTEM. Why can't or won't you understand that point? Where do you think the avg person would be today if our financial system had collapsed in 2008?
 

tommyjo

New Member
The Cyprus “deposit haircut” « Hot Air

That type of confiscation couldn't possibly happen in the U.S.! :sarcasm:

I have a feeling that after the run on the banks Parliament will not pass this measure.

Since the US operates under it's own currency, a "Cyprus solution" is unlikely.

The banks in Cyprus are closed today and likely tomorrow. Parliament there will vote before they re-open. The deal is lousy, poorly done (but that is how the Europeans seem to do things)...but the Cypriots don't have much choice...their banks are insolvent.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
sure TARP Rigged the system, but 'Too Big To FAIL' was a recent item ...... Marxist have been whining for 'take from the rich give to me' for decades ....

all TARP did was socialize the failures, while banks keep the profits ....

you completely missed my POINT

the players change .... the confiscation message NEVER changes
]

Which leads to you missing MY point; it's ALL the players, D and R, not just the 'Marxists'. What Bush did, Med D, on immigration, the wars, high energy costs, bailing out GM, then TARP, played exactly into the hands of the 'real' Marxists; it handed them the tools and the pretext to do what was unthinkable, what was a laughable idea from a fringe candidate, Jackson, merely a generation ago.

Geithner, Bernanke, those were Bush 'guys' every bit as much as Obama 'guys'.

I'm trying to get into 'The Brink' but, it starts with this 'us' and 'them' pretext. "Yeah, Bush made a few mistakes but, nothing like THESE guys!" We'll see how it goes but, it's off to a bad start. :buddies:

As long as we cling to this childish fantasy that there is ANY substantive difference, in terms of policy, and, most importantly, effect and results, between Bush and Obama, we can NOT get out of this. We can't even slow it down, not that that will do any good now anyway.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Your points on TARP, as usual, are wrong. I am not sure you have ever made a correct post regarding TARP.

First off, it was passed in 2008. You constantly equate it to Obama. ?

This is why, part of why, you have so little credibility around here.


Ask ANY Right winger on here who I blame TARP on. I mean, you'd have to pay attention to what they actually say, so, you'd still miss it because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions but, hey, it's out there.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Third, and this is the most important point you fail to understand, TARP (and the myriad of other emergency programs instituted by the Fed) was critical to saving our banking system. Not just the rich, THE ENTIRE SYSTEM. Why can't or won't you understand that point? Where do you think the avg person would be today if our financial system had collapsed in 2008?

:lmao:

And what you fail to understand is that TARP failed because it worked, because it saved a system THAT rotten, that dysfunctional, that corrupt.

Write this down;

TARP failed because it worked.

As for where we'd be today, we'd be well into sound recovery BECAUSE the old system would have had to been FIXED had TARP not rescued the whole mess.

It would have been ugly, it would have been really bad. And, it would have been fixed.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
This is why, part of why, you have so little credibility around here.


Ask ANY Right winger on here who I blame TARP on. I mean, you'd have to pay attention to what they actually say, so, you'd still miss it because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions but, hey, it's out there.

ToJo isn't interested in those sort of facts. He's only interested in telling you how wrong you are.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I'm trying to get into 'The Brink' but, it starts with this 'us' and 'them' pretext. "Yeah, Bush made a few mistakes but, nothing like THESE guys!" We'll see how it goes but, it's off to a bad start. :buddies:

I guess I need to check the calibration of my 'world view' meter ...


I thought it was laying about facts about how F'd up we were over Obamacare
 
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