Could this happen in the U.S.?

[PsyOps]

Cyprus Surprise Savings Tax. Europe's Core Problems Back to the Front Burner. - Forbes

The European Central Bank, International Monetary Fund and Cyprus announced an immediate and surprise tax of 6.75% to 9.95% on savings accounts that will be withdrawn on Tuesday morning (Monday is a holiday in Cyprus). It should raise about 5.8 billion Euros or $7.5 billon. It seems the ECB and IMF have decided to take depositors money vs. restructuring debt so that Cyprus could qualify for a 10 billion Euro (about $13 billon) bailout...

The government has shut down electronic transfers and I would expect that the ATMs in Cyprus have had all their cash drained by now. It will not surprise me if people in Greece, Spain and other weak economic Euro Zone countries will start moving Euros to stronger countries such as Germany and the UK. If you see governments start to impose limits on capital movement I would expect those countries interest rates to rise.

So the government has, for all intents and purposes, shut down any efforts by FREE PEOPLE to move their money into safer places to avoid this massive tax. The government of Cyprus has essentially seized control of all their banks.

I heard this will have a cascading effect on the banking market world-wide as well as lending and interest rates. There is also the worry that confiscation of peoples’ savings accounts wont end here.

Obama said we don't have a problem with our debt. Makes me wonder exactly what he might have up his sleeve to address our debt. Could this happen in this country; where our government takes complete control of banks, levies a massive tax on your savings, and strips all of your rights to move your money in order to keep it safe from government confiscation?

 

[FreedomFan]

Cyprus Surprise Savings Tax. Europe's Core Problems Back to the Front Burner. - Forbes



So the government has, for all intents and purposes, shut down any efforts by FREE PEOPLE to move their money into safer places to avoid this massive tax. The government of Cyprus has essentially seized control of all their banks.

That's really part of the problem. The "freeness" of the people and in fact the sovereignty of the nation itself is questionable when World Bank/IMF bailouts are involved.

Same thing is happening here with QE. Oh and just wait until the goobermint takes your 401k.

 

[GURPS]

how does QE = tax on savings


I do not understand

 

[PsyOps]

That's really part of the problem. The "freeness" of the people and in fact the sovereignty of the nation itself is questionable when World Bank/IMF bailouts are involved.

Same thing is happening here with QE. Oh and just wait until the goobermint takes your 401k.

I’m astounded that the people would just sit idly by and allow the government to seize control of their private assets all because of that same government’s incompetence in managing their fiscal discipline.

And when I hear our president say we don’t have a debt problem (when he called that same kind of debt unpatriotic), it makes me wonder what he might have planned to resolve our debt.

“We don’t have a debt problem; I fully intend to take care of it. Don’t you worry.”

 

[Larry Gude]

So the government has, for all intents and purposes, shut down any efforts by FREE PEOPLE to move their money into safer places to avoid this massive tax. The government of Cyprus has essentially seized control of all their banks.

I heard this will have a cascading effect on the banking market world-wide as well as lending and interest rates. There is also the worry that confiscation of peoples’ savings accounts wont end here.

Obama said we don't have a problem with our debt. Makes me wonder exactly what he might have up his sleeve to address our debt. Could this happen in this country; where our government takes complete control of banks, levies a massive tax on your savings, and strips all of your rights to move your money in order to keep it safe from government confiscation?

It's been happening in the US. We don't seem to mind because our portfolios have been recovering.

As long as there is QE and Dodd/Frank to justify it, why would anyone ever bother with the annoyance of directly taking our money when it is so much easier to do it the way it's been being done since fall of '08?

So, it could happen but, it would be like taking a pie off of our window sill when you can just take the whole bakery.

Why would anyone bother with it in the US?

 

[FreedomFan]

how does QE = tax on savings


I do not understand

Consider it from another angle: with $85 billion a month being pumped into Wall St. does that make the value of a dollar in your pocket worth more or worth less?

 

[migtig]

I have heard several times the business forecasters on the news channels mention the possibility of various retirement plans being seized by the government.

Our country has been following the lead of the EU lately, so I'll say anything is possible.

 

[FreedomFan]

I’m astounded that the people would just sit idly by and allow the government to seize control of their private assets all because of that same government’s incompetence in managing their fiscal discipline.

And when I hear our president say we don’t have a debt problem (when he called that same kind of debt unpatriotic), it makes me wonder what he might have planned to resolve our debt.

“We don’t have a debt problem; I fully intend to take care of it. Don’t you worry.”

Like Larry Gude has been intimating in these threads: as long as portfolios are on the upward trend and as long as there are articles in the newspapers every other month declaring that Housing is Rebounding!, then there is very little need to scratch beneath the surface.

To many, many people the health of the economy is little more than where the Dow is and what Zillow says my house is worth.

 

[FreedomFan]

I have heard several times the business forecasters on the news channels mention the possibility of various retirement plans being seized by the government.

Our country has been following the lead of the EU lately, so I'll say anything is possible.

Yup. Not an outright seizure, of course. We are much more clever than that.

The way you do it is to mandate that x% of 401k contributions must be made in Treasuries. There's your confiscation.

 

[PsyOps]

It's been happening in the US. We don't seem to mind because our portfolios have been recovering.

As long as there is QE and Dodd/Frank to justify it, why would anyone ever bother with the annoyance of directly taking our money when it is so much easier to do it the way it's been being done since fall of '08?

So, it could happen but, it would be like taking a pie off of our window sill when you can just take the whole bakery.

Why would anyone bother with it in the US?

Why would they? Because what they are doing now isn’t easing the debt. And I don't believe they have any interest in easing the debt. It's all part of that bigger effort to 'spread the wealth' and 'level the playing field'.

 

[tommyjo]

Consider it from another angle: with $85 billion a month being pumped into Wall St. does that make the value of a dollar in your pocket worth more or worth less?

No...this is not the correct interpretation. Inflation is not an issue in this country. There is insufficient demand to create the runaway or hyperinflation that right (i.e. The Heritage Foundation) has been screaming about for 4 years)

The financial repression that results from QE is the low, low interest rates that result. Interest rates, that from an after tax, inflation adjusted perspective are negative. Low interest rates hurt those who have excess money in the bank.

 

[PsyOps]

Yup. Not an outright seizure, of course. We are much more clever than that.

The way you do it is to mandate that x% of 401k contributions must be made in Treasuries. There's your confiscation.

I promise you, in their (the liberals') minds it's not enough. And there is no end to what they believe belongs to them.

 

[GURPS]

Consider it from another angle: with $85 billion a month being pumped into Wall St. does that make the value of a dollar in your pocket worth more or worth less?

well LESS


ok so in effect, my saving are worth less

yeah I keep watching Metals going up, as the dollar is worth less and less

 

[tommyjo]

Like Larry Gude has been intimating in these threads: as long as portfolios are on the upward trend and as long as there are articles in the newspapers every other month declaring that Housing is Rebounding!, then there is very little need to scratch beneath the surface.

To many, many people the health of the economy is little more than where the Dow is and what Zillow says my house is worth.

Larry is wrong. He doesn't understand TARP. He doesn't understand Dodd/Frank. He doesn't understand gas prices.

He keeps referencing Dodd/Frank but never cites any specific or general clauses he has problems with.

The fact that the stock and housing markets are recovering should give you reason to be happy...but you aren't. The fact that the job market is looking better, retail sales are increasing, demand for housing is rising as the supply of homes is falling...the data coming in on the US economy is better.

 

[Larry Gude]

Larry is wrong. He doesn't understand TARP. He doesn't understand Dodd/Frank. He doesn't understand gas prices.

He keeps referencing Dodd/Frank but never cites any specific or general clauses he has problems with.

The fact that the stock and housing markets are recovering should give you reason to be happy...but you aren't. The fact that the job market is looking better, retail sales are increasing, demand for housing is rising as the supply of homes is falling...the data coming in on the US economy is better.

This from the guy/gal who thinks I'm defending Bush.

 

[FreedomFan]

No...this is not the correct interpretation. Inflation is not an issue in this country. There is insufficient demand to create the runaway or hyperinflation that right (i.e. The Heritage Foundation) has been screaming about for 4 years)

The financial repression that results from QE is the low, low interest rates that result. Interest rates, that from an after tax, inflation adjusted perspective are negative. Low interest rates hurt those who have excess money in the bank.

I don't see the cause and effect relationship between QE and low interest rates that you seem to be hinting at. ZIRP is prevailing policy with or without QE.

You are correct to point that ZIRP hurts savers; there is no incentive to save in this environment. Also, look at velocity of money figures - where is the money going?

I also agree with you that QE is not necessarily the "driving force" behind runaway inflation, and further agree with your points about anemic demand. But my questions are more concerned with: are there sufficient tools in place to sop up the liquidity *when* demand picks back up.

 

[Larry Gude]

Why would they? Because what they are doing now isn’t easing the debt. And I don't believe they have any interest in easing the debt. It's all part of that bigger effort to 'spread the wealth' and 'level the playing field'.

You say that as though anyone actually cares about the debt.

The thing about centralizing power and control is that it works. Right up to the point where it doesn't.

The thing I can't get my head around is what that would look like. It's not 1929. We are IT. We are still THE economic superpower and can pretty much do as we please. Who is gonna foreclose on us? Who is gonna quit on the only sure game in town? One of the dirty secrets about TARP is we didn't just bail our banks out; we bailed out Germany, the UK. We took care of everyone.

 

[FreedomFan]

The fact that the stock and housing markets are recovering should give you reason to be happy...but you aren't. The fact that the job market is looking better, retail sales are increasing, demand for housing is rising as the supply of homes is falling...the data coming in on the US economy is better.

And why is that? Do you think it has anything to do with QE?

 

[Larry Gude]

No...this is not the correct interpretation. Inflation is not an issue in this country. There is insufficient demand to create the runaway or hyperinflation that right (i.e. The Heritage Foundation) has been screaming about for 4 years) .

You got one right!

Have a cookie!

 

[Larry Gude]

The financial repression that results from QE is the low, low interest rates that result. Interest rates, that from an after tax, inflation adjusted perspective are negative. Low interest rates hurt those who have excess money in the bank.

That's part of it. The bad part, the really bad part, is what happens when it stops? QE is like adding more and more air to a flat tire. Unless and until you fix the hole, you can only keep the tire usable by constantly adding air.

QE has so distorted the economy that no one even knows what fixing it looks like anymore. And no one dares turn the compressor off.