Obama making historic mistake on Social Security

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
Link to original article.

"President Obama reportedly is unveiling a budget using the chained CPI inflation measure to cheat elderly Americans out of the benefits they were promised. In two previous posts I’ve explained the perversity of the current debate about Social Security. The tax-favored private components of America’s mixed private-public retirement system — programs like employer pensions, 401Ks and IRAs — are inefficient, volatile and subject to manipulation by overcompensated, fee-extracting money managers. In contrast, the Social Security program is simple and efficient, and has low overhead costs. And yet the bipartisan establishment, including many “progressive” Democrats as well as Republicans, wants to cut Social Security — the part that works — and expand tax-favored private savings, the inefficient, unstable and inequitable part.

While cutting Social Security makes no sense at all in terms of economics or public policy, it makes excellent sense in terms of the selfish class interests of the super-rich. They have extracted about half the gains from economic growth in the U.S. in the last half-century and recycle some of their profits to fund politicians, and lobbyists, as well as mercenary propagandists who pose as neutral think tank experts. Social Security’s contribution to the retirement income of the rich is negligible, while the top 20 percent receives around 80 percent of the income from tax-favored private retirement savings accounts like 401Ks. Naturally many of America’s oligarchs want the public discussion to be solely about cutting Social Security benefits for the bottom 80 percent, rather than 401Ks for the top 20 percent. To paraphrase Leona Helmsley, Social Security is for the little people. And if we cannot afford all of our present public-plus-private retirement system … well, as the saying in Tsarist Russia had it, let any shortage be shared among the peasants.

Elite discourse on this subject is radically at odds with public opinion. According to a February 2013 Pew poll, only 10 percent of Americans want to cut Social Security while 41 percent want to increase Social Security benefits. It’s time to change the public conversation about retirement security in America to reflect the beliefs and interests of the struggling many, not the fortunate few. We need to change the subject from cutting Social Security while subsidizing luxury retirements for the elite to cutting retirement subsidies for upper-income groups while expanding Social Security benefits for the majority of American retirees."
 

tommyjo

New Member
Link to original article.

QUOTE]

What an idiotic post.

Have you ever helped someone with Social Security? "Simple and efficient" it is not. Not even close. Only a complete moron...or someone with a political motive would utter such stupidity.

Social Security has low overhead costs? Really? How many people work for SSA? What is its annual budget?

COLAs were never a "promised" portion of SSI. They did not come into being until the 1970s when inflation was rampant.

Reforming Social Security (morons on the left will only refer to it as cutting) makes nothing but economic and public policy sense. Social Security can not survive in its present form. The Baby Boomers are sucking it dry....just like they are doing with Medicare and will do to Medicaid. It is a demographic issue that has been known (how many effing times does this point have to be made in a single day?) for decades.

The worst part of all this BS "debate" is that SSI is an easy fix. Everyone in positions of authority knows the problem and they all know the fix. They are all just too damn cowardly to do anything about it.

How to fix it?

1. Raise the normal age to 70. (Yes 70...the current life expectancy of a 65 year old is 85!)

2. Raise the early age to 65.

3. Increase the income level upon which FICA/FUTA apply.

4. Means test the benefit (the well off in retirement get less or no SS benefit)

Before people start their whining...it is either this or actual benefit cuts or massive deficits. Real, structural deficits. Ones that matter and can't be fixed.
 

abcxyz

New Member
How to fix it?

1. Raise the normal age to 70. (Yes 70...the current life expectancy of a 65 year old is 85!)

2. Raise the early age to 65.

3. Increase the income level upon which FICA/FUTA apply.

4. Means test the benefit (the well off in retirement get less or no SS benefit)

So I:
1- have to wait longer to get it
2- have to wait longer to get it
3- get to pay more in
4- get less back

Got it....

If it weren't MY money to start with you may have been on to some thing for once.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
How to fix it?

1. Raise the normal age to 70. (Yes 70...the current life expectancy of a 65 year old is 85!)

2. Raise the early age to 65.

3. Increase the income level upon which FICA/FUTA apply.

4. Means test the benefit (the well off in retirement get less or no SS benefit)

This may be a first - a post in which I not only agree with all of what you wrote - including the part I didn't quote - but with a solution that I've said before. Several times.

I've actually seen alternative solutions that allow the income level for taxation to go up MUCH higher, but to be offset with increases in levels that can be contributed to retirement.

BUT -

This will only extend the life of Social Security. It kicks the can down the road - a bit - but it will still turn around and bite us in the ass eventually.

For one - government just can't seem to resist the urge to expand benefits of Social Security. So it will always cost more.

My primary concern though is, that although people CAN continue to live well past 65 or 70 - they really cannot effectively compete against younger workers as effective work force. The human body is living longer, but reflexes still slow down, the senses weaken, the muscles ache sooner and old age often consists of careful health maintenance. You WILL know seniors who are rather active - but they not only can't take the grind of going to work every day past 70, they're not going to be terribly cost effective.

Thus - you're only going to be able to crank up that age a little bit in the future. Not unless we find a way to make 80 year olds as spry and alert as folks 30 or more years younger.

So THAT creates another problem - how do you provide a pension for a person who stops working at 70, but lives to 95?

Actually, there IS a way, but no one wants it, and frankly, government is too damned reckless and irresponsible to be the arbiters of it.

REAL retirement accounts, invested in stocks. Yes, we all took a bath in our 401k during the recession. Overall, STILL made money. Stocks are the best investment over long periods.

Or other kinds of private investment. Right now, the pay as you go model is destined to crash eventually. It has to, it's a failure of demographics. Retirement benefits from real retirement accounts WILL, but frankly - I don't trust Uncle Sam not to stick his finger in them before they're finished cooking.
 

Monello

Smarter than the average bear
PREMO Member
4. Means test the benefit (the well off in retirement get less or no SS benefit)

This is a huge disincentive to invest. Let's take 2 people that earned the same amount of money in their lifetime. Why should the 1 that chose to spend all their money be rewarded and the 1 that invested wisely, and accumulated wealth, be penalized.

That is the problem with asset based programs. They reward the wrong behaviors.

Why not have a program that gives more to the people that accomplished more with their money? Certainly they are better stewards with their money.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
This is a huge disincentive to invest. Let's take 2 people that earned the same amount of money in their lifetime. Why should the 1 that chose to spend all their money be rewarded and the 1 that invested wisely, and accumulated wealth, be penalized.

That is the problem with asset based programs. They reward the wrong behaviors.

Why not have a program that gives more to the people that accomplished more with their money? Certainly they are better stewards with their money.

Why not add a dollar in the limit to 401k's for every additional dollar above a given threshold for Social Security taxation, for the rich? THEN means test it. So yes, they contribute, BUT they get permission to sock away more money.
 

FreedomFan

Snarky 'ol Cuss
I can't wait for this Ponzi scheme to collapse so I can say "I told you so". I don't care if I never see a dime of it, nor if it's gone before I'm eligible to receive it. I don't contribute to it any longer, but I never saw the value of paying to support those who were too lazy to take care of their future during they're working years.

Crash it. Crash it now. Crash it hard.
 

RPMDAD

Well-Known Member
So I:
1- have to wait longer to get it
2- have to wait longer to get it
3- get to pay more in
4- get less back

Got it....

If it weren't MY money to start with you may have been on to some thing for once.

Agree 100% have been paying in it for a long time, now take it away from me.
Should have changed the system years ago or stopped taking it out of my paycheck. You want to save the social security fund why not just raise the age for collecting from it to 100, that should save it some money but saving money is not in the Govts. vocabulary, seriously doubt if they have anyone working there who could even look up and understand the meaning, kind of relates to cutting back on spending taxpayers money and balancing the budget.. :sarcasm:
 
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