Lone Wolf McWhitey...

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...this is a truly outstanding piece exploring the reaches of disconnected thought. It really is remarkable the depth and breadth of the preconceived notions, the assumptions and presumptions of what, why and who, America is as well as the same questions about what, why and who...is not America.

A stunning piece.

Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a white American - Salon.com

Likewise, in the context of terrorist attacks, such privilege means white non-Islamic terrorists are typically portrayed not as representative of whole groups or ideologies, but as “lone wolf” threats to be dealt with as isolated law enforcement matters. Meanwhile, non-white or developing-world terrorism suspects are often reflexively portrayed as representative of larger conspiracies, ideologies and religions that must be dealt with as systemic threats — the kind potentially requiring everything from law enforcement action to military operations to civil liberties legislation to foreign policy shifts.

“White privilege is knowing that even if the bomber turns out to be white, no one will call for your group to be profiled as terrorists as a result, subjected to special screening or threatened with deportation,” writes author Tim Wise. “White privilege is knowing that if this bomber turns out to be white, the United States government will not bomb whatever corn field or mountain town or stale suburb from which said bomber came, just to ensure that others like him or her don’t get any ideas. And if he turns out to be a member of the Irish Republican Army we won’t bomb Dublin. And if he’s an Italian-American Catholic we won’t bomb the Vatican.”
 

cwo_ghwebb

No Use for Donk Twits
I read this earlier and was appalled that this pap passes as serious thought. I was going to post it but decided not to give certain folks on the board a woody.
 

libertytyranny

Dream Stealer
Because "white" encompasses so many ideologies, so many backgrounds, so many religions, views, political thoughts and a multitude of combinations of each...it is nearly impossible to make them representative of anything but a very small group.


That's not that hard to understand :shrug:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Because "white" encompasses so many ideologies, so many backgrounds, so many religions, views, political thoughts and a multitude of combinations of each...it is nearly impossible to make them representative of anything but a very small group.


That's not that hard to understand :shrug:

Well, it's not even that.

Consider. What are Adam Lanza, Gerald Loughner, Kazynski, Eric Harris and Dylan Kleybold if NOT lone wolves??? I mean, who do they represent, the Klan? Goth Nation? The National Association of Crazed White Guys? Brotherhood International of Cabin Dwellers???

Further, if we go to the Big One, McVeigh, it can be plausibly argued that he represents a considerable number of white males in distrust of the government including, so some extent, me. But, it is a FAR cry from what happened right after OK City compared to 9/11. There was NO ONE in the streets celebrating OK City. No burning of the US flag, no 'they had it coming' no, 'maybe they'll listen to us now!"

It's just a stunning proposition to begin with, comparing people who are, in fact, lone wolves, to people who are, in fact, nothing of the kind and who do, in fact, represent millions and millions.

Just stunning.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
It's just a stunning proposition to begin with, comparing people who are, in fact, lone wolves, to people who are, in fact, nothing of the kind and who do, in fact, represent millions and millions.

Just stunning.

This is what I've been trying to tell you, that the simple message of 'we are targetting Muslims' because of 911, no matter how false that is, liberals propagated this message effectively enough to convince people it's true. It's about effective messaging to people that refuse to go beyond the quick snippets on the internet, twitter, or the evening news.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
This is what I've been trying to tell you, that the simple message of 'we are targetting Muslims' because of 911, no matter how false that is, liberals propagated this message effectively enough to convince people it's true. It's about effective messaging to people that refuse to go beyond the quick snippets on the internet, twitter, or the evening news.

What does it have to do with the failures to kill bin Laden when we had him, AVOID putting Big Army in Afghanistan and losing in Iraq???

It's as though you are arguing the world began today and we just suddenly found ourselves with two lost wars, a bunch of Muslims in cages, indefinitely, in Gitmo and, gee whiz, how'd they get there??? And that the GOP had nothing to do with any of this and is just being smeared by snake oil salesman and other slick talkers.

Horse. Then cart.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
How many people from Egypt, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Sudan ...


... are something other than Mooselimb :shrug:
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
.... that the simple message of 'we are targeting Muslims' because of 9-11 ....

:shrug:

why else are we there, except terrorism or Nation States that support Terrorists ?

the problem as Larry has pointed out MANY Times, were not there to WIN

[KILL Every Mother ####er breathing until you break the will or means to resist]

just try to win hearts and minds, hoping MAYBE Mooselimbs will turn their backs on 1000 yrs of conditioning and play nice with the West ?


a man never won a war by dying for his country, he won a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his ....


:buddies:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
What does it have to do with the failures to kill bin Laden when we had him, AVOID putting Big Army in Afghanistan and losing in Iraq???

It's as though you are arguing the world began today and we just suddenly found ourselves with two lost wars, a bunch of Muslims in cages, indefinitely, in Gitmo and, gee whiz, how'd they get there??? And that the GOP had nothing to do with any of this and is just being smeared by snake oil salesman and other slick talkers.

Horse. Then cart.

Why do you think they failed to get Bin Laden in Tora Bora? Why do you think Bush AND Obama failed to put a big enough overwhelming force in Afghanistan to WIN?

It was viewed as unpopular. Bush was concerned that too large of a presence would anger Muslims world-wide. And it was becoming unpopular with Americans. Everything revolves around what’s popular and what will win votes. There was not one bit of logic that went into Tora Bora or Gitmo. But it happened anyway. Everything got reduced down to ‘Bush is a war monger’ and ‘Our troops are going house to house terrorizing women and children’ and ‘our troops are killing civilians in cold blood’. It became a war to win politically rather than actually winning the war. The propaganda won; propaganda targeted at voters.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
:shrug:

why else are we there, except terrorism or Nation States that support Terrorists ?

the problem as Larry has pointed out MANY Times, were not there to WIN

[KILL Every Mother ####er breathing until you break the will or means to resist]

just try to win hearts and minds, hoping MAYBE Mooselimbs will turn their backs on 1000 yrs of conditioning and play nice with the West ?


a man never won a war by dying for his country, he won a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his ....


:buddies:

I'm not talking against winning. I'm trying explain why we didn't. If you want to win any war, you have to win the hearts and minds of the people that support that war with their taxes first. That got lost in the propaganda. Don't you remember all the inflamatory remarks by Kerry, Obama, H Clinton, Murtha, Reid, the body counts in the media? All designed to incite negative support from the people. And it worked.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Don't you remember all the inflamatory remarks by Kerry, Obama, H Clinton, Murtha, Reid, the body counts in the media? All designed to incite negative support from the people. And it worked.

counts of dead civies ?

yeah
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
Now Is not the Time to Discuss the ‘Political Aftermath,’ Especially When Your Theories Are Ludicrous | TheBlaze.com

I :heart: S.E. Cupp!

But the most offensive part of Sirota’s exercise, which is hardly a novel one, is how lazy it is.

A mass murderer’s motivations only matter if they’re useful in preventing other attacks. Does anyone give a damn “why” Jared Loughner says he killed 6 people in Tucson? Or “why” James Holmes says he killed 20 people in an Aurora movie theater? Or what excuse Adam Lanza may have invented in his sick mind for killing 20 children in Newtown? Are their “justifications” rational or meaningful? Will they lead us to the next shooter?

On the other hand, of course, the why for Hassan, Abdulmutallab, Shahzad, etc is crucial. It tells us where there may be more like them.

As for the Crooks and Liars list, which implies (overtly) that the unifying ideology behind all these individual incidents is right wing extremism, motive is also meaningless.

Just because they say it, doesn’t make it so. Even if they all explicitly blamed their politics for their actions, conservatism doesn’t espouse violence. The pro-life movement doesn’t espouse violence. The Tea Party doesn’t espouse violence. That a few nuts exacted violence under the banner of right-wing politics doesn’t mean the feeling is mutual.

If a nut from the left bombed a crowded city square, and said he did it in the name of President Obama, you’d say that was ludicrous, that President Obama wouldn’t have wanted him to do that. But somehow when nuts claiming to be from the right do it, the movement is responsible for inciting it?

Was liberalism, then, responsible for encouraging Floyd Corkins (who was not white, incidentally) to bring a gun into the Family Research Council building in an attempt to kill staffers for their opposition to gay rights?

Was liberalism responsible for encouraging a group of black bloc anarchists to target the 2008 Republican National Convention with Molotov cocktails?

Was liberalism to blame when Naomi Klein openly called for violence at the 2004 Republican National Convention in protest of the Iraq War?

Is liberalism behind the bomb sent to Republican Sheriff Joe Arpaio? Or the envelope of Ricin sent to Republican Senator Roger Wicker?

Was liberalism behind the vandalism of Mormon temples across California in the wake of the Prop 8 legislative battle?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Why do you think they failed to get Bin Laden in Tora Bora? Why do you think Bush AND Obama failed to put a big enough overwhelming force in Afghanistan to WIN?

It was viewed as unpopular. Bush was concerned that too large of a presence would anger Muslims world-wide. And it was becoming unpopular with Americans. Everything revolves around what’s popular and what will win votes. There was not one bit of logic that went into Tora Bora or Gitmo. But it happened anyway. Everything got reduced down to ‘Bush is a war monger’ and ‘Our troops are going house to house terrorizing women and children’ and ‘our troops are killing civilians in cold blood’. It became a war to win politically rather than actually winning the war. The propaganda won; propaganda targeted at voters.

This is crap.

We had enormous global support and sympathy immediately after 9/11. Bush had thrown down the gauntlet; bin Laden, dead or alive. None of that support was gone in a mere three months. But, then, the decision was made that if bin Laden got killed by a bomb, so be it but, on the ground, December of '01, it was decided to back our people off and let the locals finish him off for political reasons and pressures that did NOT exist at that time. It was a horrible, illogical, stupid call and one you simply can't get back.

Further, no sane person thought INVADING Afghanistan made ANY sense. It is NOT the graveyard of Empires for nothing. For every thing Iraq had going for it, a decent middle class, political opportunities, infrastructure, that made it a fair bet that we could succeed in transforming it to a pro Western ally, Afghanistan was just the opposite; the worst possible imaginable chances.

We went in there for one and only one reason; to satisfy the military/industrial complex. There was NOTHING political about it other than the embarrassment of bin Laden not even being there anymore. So, we compound the mistake by going big.

For crying out loud, concern for angering Muslims? What could be worse than just going half assed, dragging killing and destruction out, winning nothing and killing people for NO gain while looking weak and inept in the process?

If Bush did NOT understand he had to get on with and win whatever war he chose to engage in, then he is a bigger fool than I think. There was NO circumstances possible that would allow war to just drag on and NOT reach the political realities you cite. Those realities dictated GET ON WITH IT AND WIN NOW or don't go. And there was NO political opposition worth mentioning for the first few years. Bush had what every politician wants; a clear field and a free hand. He blew it. Horribly.

Mistakes get made. Big ones. Enormous ones. Wilson dragging us into WWI. Korea. Vietnam. That mistakes get made does not excuse them. It is just heart breaking that we put down the ghosts of Vietnam in the early 90's, that we DID know how to go win and do it and yet a mere decade later, forgot the unforgiving rules of war.

Worse, all the FBI needed was a memo saying go get 'em and 9/11 may well never have happened. Instead, they got the ghosts of JFK, the wall between CIA and FBI sharing information and, instead of a piece of paper, we go BIG again and get DHS, TSA, the militarization of Mayberry police departments and a whole new bureaucracy that now must be fed.

You talk of politics, of removing the responsibility of choices, that, somehow, Bush's hands were tied. That is crap. He just chose poorly. That's all. While political implications are real and are enormous factors, there is NOTHING that hurts you more politically than making the wrong choices and failing.

It is not for nothing that the media and the D's can point to the failures of the GOP; we did. We failed.

And now we're dealing with the results.

We can play woulda, coulda, shoulda but, what we can't get around is the results.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
This is crap.

We had enormous global support and sympathy immediately after 9/11.

Further, no sane person thought INVADING Afghanistan made ANY sense.


What’s crap? The fact that we enormous global support? Well, except all those sane people. :confused:

Explain in your simple terms why Bush (or whoever made the decision) let Bin Laden go? I gave mine, and as usual, you rejected it without providing any reasonable explanation. So……. ?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Explain in your simple terms why Bush (or whoever made the decision) let Bin Laden go? I gave mine, and as usual, you rejected it without providing any reasonable explanation. So……. ?

the decision was made that if bin Laden got killed by a bomb, so be it but, on the ground, December of '01, it was decided to back our people off and let the locals finish him off for political reasons and pressures that did NOT exist at that time.

I done wroted it. It was done made out of concern for pressures you'd done mentioned, hurtin' the widdle feelings of Muslims and other political ramifications, sorry, that ain't no simple term, cares? Them there 'concerns'? Uh, worries? Any ways, pressures that did not exist at the time. At's b'out as simple as I can make it.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I done wroted it. It was done made out of concern for pressures you'd done mentioned, hurtin' the widdle feelings of Muslims and other political ramifications, sorry, that ain't no simple term, cares? Them there 'concerns'? Uh, worries? Any ways, pressures that did not exist at the time. At's b'out as simple as I can make it.

Fail
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out

Look, you are CORRECT. There were concerns, there always are, in terms of the politics of EVERY decision. It was not invalid to say "Uh, Mr. President, what if some local goat herder shot him instead of a US trooper? Wouldn't that look better?"

What was invalid was the response. What Bush, or whomever made the call, should have said was "Good thinking, Higgins. However, given we are already bombing the crap out of every thing that moves and we may well have killed him already, let's set aside those concerns and let our guys do the job. They deserve it for their work and sacrifice. It's their job. Plus, 3,000 lives demand we do it."


"Yes sir. However, what about later? Might this not inspire others to try and harm America out of revenge?"


"Look, Higgins. I pay you to worry. Not to be a complete ####ing twit. 3,000 people are dead. The towers are gone. We had the Cole, the embassies, hell, the first attack on the towers. I no longer give a flying #### what THEY might think or THEY might do. Now, you go worry about what to say in the speech when I tell the world some hard ass US spec warrior shot this sumbytch deader'n yesterday and how to make clear that justice was done."

:shrug:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Look, you are CORRECT. There were concerns, there always are, in terms of the politics of EVERY decision. It was not invalid to say "Uh, Mr. President, what if some local goat herder shot him instead of a US trooper? Wouldn't that look better?"

What was invalid was the response. What Bush, or whomever made the call, should have said was "Good thinking, Higgins. However, given we are already bombing the crap out of every thing that moves and we may well have killed him already, let's set aside those concerns and let our guys do the job. They deserve it for their work and sacrifice. It's their job. Plus, 3,000 lives demand we do it."


"Yes sir. However, what about later? Might this not inspire others to try and harm America out of revenge?"


"Look, Higgins. I pay you to worry. Not to be a complete ####ing twit. 3,000 people are dead. The towers are gone. We had the Cole, the embassies, hell, the first attack on the towers. I no longer give a flying #### what THEY might think or THEY might do. Now, you go worry about what to say in the speech when I tell the world some hard ass US spec warrior shot this sumbytch deader'n yesterday and how to make clear that justice was done."

:shrug:

I have stated it over and over that I am not validating or excusing what Bush did. I am with you that virtually every aspect of his handling of the wars was an epic failure. I am simply providing an explanation for why. I will always believe in today’s politics our politicians rarely make decisions in our best interest. They will typically serve their own interest first; and that is to stay in that office and keep controlling our lives and our thinking.

Heck I don’t know, maybe Bush did it because he believed keeping Bin Laden alive served his purpose better than dead. Perhaps he thought that, just like with Hitler, once Bin Laden was dead the war would be over; and he didn’t want it to be over yet. He hadn’t fully achieved his objective; which part of me believes was to expand the Military Industrial Complex and gain some control over that region.

In any event, it didn’t take long for the war to go negative and it became a political war rather than a war to win. The constant negative barrage of attacks on our troops from members of congress, the constant footage of our troops killing and being killed, the daily body counts. The propaganda war against the wars took its toll on America’s will, which – in my opinion – affected Bush’s and our politicians’ desire to simply fight and win the war. It was no longer a war to win; it was a war to end. Where did you hear from any politician ‘We need to WIN this war’? The marching orders were ‘We need to END this war.’ ‘WIN’ was removed from their dictionaries.
 
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