College debts...

[BuddyLee]

http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=717


"It's that time. And I’m not talking about cicadas. It's graduation time,
and all across the country high school seniors are tossing their
mortarboards into the air and heading off to face a future filled with
hope, promise - and soaring college tuition and fees.

It's one of the few areas in which the GOP really has taken the country to
a higher level.

The cost of a college education at a four-year public university has risen
a devastating 35 percent since George W. Bush took office. He promised to
be "the education president," but in what we now know to be the classic
Bush bait and switch, he then did just the opposite, delivering a
tax-slashing economic agenda that forced public colleges and universities
in all but one state to raise tuition in 2003."

 

[Spoiled]

no child left behind makes him the education man!

 

[czygvtwkr]

I tell you having been in college during Clintons entire Presidency it was no different. I started in 92 and got my BS in 97 and my tuition had gone up 40% and they tacked a new $300 special fee onto my bill every semester. Thank God when I started grad school the state paid my tuition for me because when I got out the bill had risen 20% from Fall 97 to Spring 2000.

States had to cut funding so colleges either raised tuition or fired professors....guess which one they did? So this didnt start with Bush, actually it probably didn't start with Clinton either it just seems that way because he is president now while your in college.

Colleges are turning people away they have so many, they are increasing their capacity and they will be able to raise prices until they are no longer at full capacity. Its the whole mentality that everyone needs to go to college these days. Hell my old neighbor went to college, got a political science degree and now is an assistant manager of Arbys.

 

[vraiblonde]

Dear Buddy Lee,

Thank you for sharing what an idiot Arianna Huffington is. I haven't seen her on TV for awhile so, if I read that missive with her accent in mind, I am reminded why I favor closing our borders to immigrants.

Your friend,
Vrai

 

[rraley]

Now Miss Huffington definitely has a point here about the plight of higher education since 2001. Now I am not sure about the facts and figures that cvgry or w/e provided, but I do know about the current situation and what the federal government's response to it has been. In the late 1990s, our federal budget was running a surplus due to a great economy and constant taxation and because of this surplus, intergovernmental revenue directed towards the states continued to pump in. As a result, there were only a handful of states, if that, that had budget crises like the ones that forty-nine of the states are experiencing today. When federal revenues dropped substantially due to President Bush's tax cuts, our surplus of course went down the tubes. Then 9/11 happened and our economy has not been right since. 9/11 and the Iraq War have redefined our budget priorities as well with the military receiving much larger budgets due to the greater effort to seek out terrorists, etc. These added defense costs combined with the expiration of PAYGO have led to the largest budget deficit in history and as such, states are not getting anywhere near as much in the form of intergovernmental revenue as the late 1990s.

With less federal money, states of course were placed in a tough situation - cut services or increase taxes. Well almost all of them have chosen to raise taxes (which you can call a tax increase or a fee increase, but they are both the same thing) and they have also chosen to cut certain "unneeded" services such as higher education. Let us look at the Maryland example: higher education funding flourished under Paris Glendenning (or Spendenning as some so nicely refer to him) during the late 1990s and produced terrific results. The University of Maryland has 64 programs ranked in the top 20 now after there was only one in 1990 and there is now enough money for the school to fund not only a good basketball program, but a good football program. St. Mary's College of Maryland is one of the most prestigious small, liberal arts schools in the nation. Now since 2001, higher education funding in this state has been cut by 22% and tuition has gone up so high that students are going on hunger strikes to protest. A bill that would have capped tuition at the universities was vetoed by Governor Ehrlich. The same story can be told in almost all of the states and what has the federal government done to alleviate the high costs of higher education: cut the number of students who are eligible for Pell Grants and other forms of federal college aid.

There is a serious problem with college costs and more than just some accented foreigner sees it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Bush does NOT set college tuitions. So sorry to disappoint you. Liberals will literally connect any pair of completely unrelated dots in order to froth at the mouth about Bush.

Unsubsidized Stafford and PLUS loans are incredibly cheap - sitting at 4.22% right now. You're making an enormous stretch trying to say that the federal budget (which is determined by Congress, not Bush) is responsible for a rise in college tuition. Especially when college costs have been rising steadily since the first college was built.

Is it George Bush's fault, too, that a loaf of bread doesn't cost 5 cents anymore?

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Bush does NOT set college tuitions. You're making an enormous stretch trying to say that the federal budget (which is determined by Congress, not Bush) is responsible for a rise in college tuition. Especially when college costs have been rising steadily since the first college was built.

You are right, President Bush does not set college tuitions. The budget conditions of the United States and the states establish public college tuitions and when there is a $530 billion deficit, tuition goes up due to the lack of intergovernmental revenue and smaller state budgets. I guess that you missed that part of my post.

I have seen you do this often with the whole belief that the president does not have anything to do with the federal budget. That is just absolute horse dung. Yes, Congress is the only governmental body that can establish a budget according to the Constitution, but in today's political world, the president is the one who proposes the budget. President Bush is a Republican I believe and the House of Representatives I believe has a 230-205 Republican majority and I believe that the Senate is 51-49 Republican. Congress is the President's rubber stamp right now - his budget has been passed every year of his tenure. The administration decides the budget and not Congress I am sorry to say.

Yes college costs should rise every year - within inflation, not by 35%. That is just a terribly burdensome increase.

 

[willie]

Arianna is about as informative as the DU.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Like I said above this has been going on alot longer than 2001. Colleges are building new buildings, many of which are student rec centers, new residences for the president of the university, etc. In the mid 90's my tuition went up about 10% per year while I watched a new (1.5 million dollar) residence for the president be built, a student rec center with a rock climbing wall, and a seperate student rec center for minority students be built.

Pell grants were such a waste in my opinion, my family wasnt rich by any means...dad was a blue collar worker making roughly $40k a year and I didnt qualify, however I watched students that never attended class, that never passed a class go up and get their free money every semester. Does that make me bitter, hell yes it does.

There is so much assistance out there available, you only have to look for it.

For the perfect model of state instituitions look to Georgia.

And finally Maryland is the most piss poor place to get a college education that I have found as far as funding goes. It is expensive as hell. The college of southern maryland costs as much as a good state instution in many places.

PS if you compare the prices of text books they also increased by roughly the same amount as college tuition and George Bush had nothing to do with that. In 1993 a brand new Calculus book cost me $73, In 2003 the same book but the current edition costs $150 at CSM. How do you explain that one as George Bushes fault?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by rraley
tuition goes up due to the lack of intergovernmental revenue and smaller state budgets. I guess that you missed that part of my post

A quick trip to the SMC website blows your whole theory out the door:

http://www.smcm.edu/financialaid/

78% received aid from some source
66% received a grant or scholarship from some source
60% received a grant or scholarship from St. Mary's
20% received a grant or scholarship from the State of Maryland

Not only that, but a year at SMC is cheaper than sh*t:
http://www.smcm.edu/financialaid/estbudget.cfm

$8,000 a year for in-state tuition? $20,000 a year for the whole enchilada? That's nothing - any kid should be able to afford that by working, taking out student loans and applying for private scholarships.

 

[vraiblonde]

And here's another goodie:

http://www.urhome.umd.edu/newsdesk/uniini/release.cfm?ArticleID=902

This, in particular, jumped out at me:

"In the face of a possible second double-digit tuition increase this year, we felt it important to take aggressive steps to make sure those on the fringes of the access border did not get pushed away," said McLean.

They're raising the cost of tuition, yet allowing low-income students to go to college free. Now let's put on our thinking caps....

 

[czygvtwkr]

Vrai, I would hardly call that cheap as ****.

I paid about $3500 a year in tuition in my later years, worked about 20 hrs a week and had student loans and I didnt have a whole lot to spare. Enough for groceries and some beer at the local pub and that was pretty much it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by czygvtwkr
Vrai, I would hardly call that cheap as ****.

It is when you consider that only 22% of the students will actually pay that amount. The rest will have scholarships, grants, etc. to subsidize it.

 

[czygvtwkr]

True,

What really ticks me off the way aid is handed out.....

My parents drove cars that were atleast 10 years old until they fell apart and paid off their 30 year mortgage in about 13 years. Our neighbors had brand new cars every two years and not a pot to piss in because they were financially irresponsible their kid got to go to school free where I didnt. Thats ok, their kid now cleans up puke in a doctors office and thats all he will ever do.

 

[Vince]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
This, in particular, jumped out at me:
They're raising the cost of tuition, yet allowing low-income students to go to college free. Now let's put on our thinking caps....

Yeah, if you don't make any money your kid goes to college for free. If you're like me and make a decent wage, you get to spend every cent sending your kid to college. This year my daughter is on her third year and I have enough for the fall semester, after that it's student loans.

 

[SmallTown]

Economic decisions by the government do have an impact on college tuition.

As far as it goes with seeing tuition rise and seeing new things being built around campus, don't forget these things are planned out WAY in advance, and there is also the notion of alumni donations which some people earmark for certain projects around campus and not just the "general fund"

 

[czygvtwkr]

I see it as a failing at the University or even State level. If your school depends on funding from the federal government that much then they are not doing something correct.

Schools can turn down alumni donations if they are for certian things only. Often the building of some things such as new student rec centers are for prestige rather than need. When they are built with donations I say fine by that, but not if it requires the school to use up other money just to get a donation.

Heck Smalltown Ill give you $5 to move to california if you supply the rest of the funding.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by czygvtwkr
I see it as a failing at the University or even State level. If your school depends on funding from the federal government that much then they are not doing something correct.

not necessarily true. You create your budget based on historical dollars as well as future projections. If the cost of those future projections suddenly rise, or dollars coming in suddenly are reduced, you have to do something about it.

Take our government for instance. When Bush came into office he touted tax cuts (although not less spending, which I always found odd anyways). Everything was seemingly fine and dandy until 9/11. Suddenly the projected spending numbers skyrocketed. When you have less revenue coming in, and your expenses skyrocket you have to get money from somewhere. Unfortunately, universities aren't able to keep rolling these losses into a huge debt, so tuition hikes are needed to offset both the reduced funding coming in and unplanned expenses.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Well that is my point, they should not have relied on money that they may or may not be given in the future. The increases in tuition are not any where near the same across the board, some schools barely raised tuition compared to inflation and some made the hikes huge.

Infact I argue that states like Maryland that spent and spent and spent without regard to the future caused such high tuition raises themselves. They had to quit spending some time, and when they did the results were felt rather hard.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by czygvtwkr
Well that is my point, they should not have relied on money that they may or may not be given in the future. The increases in tuition are not any where near the same across the board, some schools barely raised tuition compared to inflation and some made the hikes huge.

But this is a basic difference between a private and public schools. Not only does the government (state level) pay into the universities, it also gains quite a bit from the research performed at these schools which is one of their big motivations to supporting the schools.