Electric cars and cold weather

TPD

TPD

the poor dad
A friend and myself were having a discussion today about electric cars and bitterly cold weather such as we had this morning. How does an electric car produce heat? Can you warm up an electric car? Batteries and cold weather do not usually get along well, so what happens to efficiency in cold temps? If you drive an electric car, do you just wear more coats and gloves or do you drive the gas guzzler on a day like today?

Not that I would ever buy one, but can someone who owns an electric car please chime in on these questions? Enquiring minds want to know!
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Not sure what they do about heat (yet) but figure something like aux heat in your heat pump.. but the cold already decreases range by up to 2/3ds, so the leaf range drops to about 15 miles per charg8e (or less) at 20 - 25 F, run an electric heater? What's left? 3 miles? 5 miles?
 
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Tilted

Tilted

..
I recall there was a thread some time ago in which we discussed this, but a quick search didn't find it.

Anyway, yeah, cold weather hurts the performance of electric vehicles. For one thing, the cabin heating system can be a significant drain on battery life. Typically it's basically resistance heating - you don't have the (otherwise wasted) extra thermal energy created by a gas engine. And batteries don't perform as well when they're really cold - they don't discharge energy (or charge) as fast. They don't perfom as well when it's really hot either, there's an optimal range - but the dropoff at the top end is typically not as problematic.

Manufacturers are doing things to mitigate the problems caused by cold weather. For instance, Teslas use a system that heats the battery after the car is going (it somehow uses the little bit of waste thermal energy that is created). But cold weather is still an issue with electric cars.
 
Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Tilted said:
I recall there was a thread some time ago in which we discussed this, but a quick search didn't find it.

Anyway, yeah, cold weather hurts the performance of electric vehicles. For one thing, the cabin heating system can be a significant drain on battery life. Typically it's basically resistance heating - you don't have the (otherwise wasted) extra thermal energy created by a gas engine. And batteries don't perform as well when they're really cold - they don't discharge energy (or charge) as fast. They don't perfom as well when it's really hot either, there's an optimal range - but the dropoff at the top end is typically not as problematic.

Manufacturers are doing things to mitigate the problems caused by cold weather. For instance, Teslas use a system that heats the battery after the car is going (it somehow uses the little bit of waste thermal energy that is created). But cold weather is still an issue with electric cars.
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They also allow for one to pre-condition the car, heating the battery and cabin while charging. But overall cold (even hot) makes batteries last about half of what they optimally last.
 
MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
BadGirl said:
It would suck to have an electric car well as an extended power outage.
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Imagine, these shmucks who buy the electric cars to prevent globalwarmcoldchange have to run a generator to charge their vehicle, and use more gas than if they had just bought a relatively efficient car.

Maybe they can just run a generator in the trunk when it's cold so they can actually go more than a couple of miles.
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Blister said:
According to the Environmental Protection Agency, gasoline-powered vehicles likewise suffer diminished range (in terms of reduced fuel economy) in the cold. A conventional auto’s gas mileage in city driving is typically 12 percent lower at 20 degrees than it would be at a balmier 77 degrees, with gas/electric hybrid vehicles suffering an even greater drop of around 31 to 34 percent under the same conditions.
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sure the EMS is enriching the mixture
 
PeoplesElbow

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
GURPS said:
sure the EMS is enriching the mixture
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Part of it, denser air, more aerodynamic drag, more air in cylinders means more fuel burned per cycle, tires losing pressure not inflated to optimum. In practice though it is very little difference.
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
PeoplesElbow said:
Part of it, denser air, more aerodynamic drag, more air in cylinders means more fuel burned per cycle, tires losing pressure not inflated to optimum. In practice though it is very little difference.
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what has screwed over my MPG in winter is the 10% Ethanol

I lost 2 - 5 mpg
 
PeoplesElbow

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
GURPS said:
what has screwed over my MPG in winter is the 10% Ethanol

I lost 2 - 5 mpg
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I'm not sure I can tell a difference between before and now, but I swear Sunoco gas gives me better MPG by a wee bit.

5 mpg sounds excessive though, what are you driving?
 
aps45819

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
I track my mpg every tank and it always drops in the winter by about 3-4 mpg.
I blame "winter blend" gas
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
PeoplesElbow said:
I'm not sure I can tell a difference between before and now, but I swear Sunoco gas gives me better MPG by a wee bit.

5 mpg sounds excessive though, what are you driving?
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1995 Saturn .... when I drove to Leesburg [dullas town center] every day - then local driving between clients
- a mixture of 95 / 495 - 66 - 50 up 15 to leesburg
home was 7 - GW Pk Wy - 14th st bridge 295 - 210 or other combinations ... 7 - cut through Great Falls - Dolly Madison into Upper Arlington .... spout run 14th etc....

I averaged 35 - 38 in the NON E-10 Season ... in the winter that dropped to 30 / 33 ish
I tracked my mileage with every tank over 2 yrs



if I get out of this area and get some non E-10 gas - liberty or Pure Gas out past front royal my MPG jumps back up
 
PeoplesElbow

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
GURPS said:
1995 Saturn .... when I drove to Leesburg [dullas town center] every day - then local driving between clients
- a mixture of 95 / 495 - 66 - 50 up 15 to leesburg
home was 7 - GW Pk Wy - 14th st bridge 295 - 210 or other combinations ... 7 - cut through Great Falls - Dolly Madison into Upper Arlington .... spout run 14th etc....

I averaged 35 - 38 in the NON E-10 Season ... in the winter that dropped to 30 / 33 ish
I tracked my mileage with every tank over 2 yrs



if I get out of this area and get some non E-10 gas - liberty or Pure Gas out past front royal my MPG jumps back up
Click to expand...

There has to be something else at play there, such as the ECU not properly recognizing the fuel or something. You are losing 10% of your fuel economy as if the ethanol part of the fuel was just filler and not combusting at all. An E85 vehicle will do almost that well
 
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