$30k to shovel the sidewalks on GMR?

Dakota

Dakota

~~~~~~~
And how many inmates are in our local jail that could have done this for free? :shrug:
 
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itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
PeoplesElbow said:
WTF, give me $30K and I will be out there with a snow shovel every time it snows myself.

http://smnewsnet.com/archives/23077...ills-road-estimated-to-cost-upwards-of-30000/
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Did you see the equipment they had to use to do it? I doubt ANYONE in SOMD has specialized sidewalk snow removal equipment.. the ones I saw were using two road graters, several bobcats, workers with shovels, front loaders.. so if you had the millions dollars wOrth of equipment to do it you too could have made 30k.
 
B

BernieP

Resident PIA
itsbob said:
Did you see the equipment they had to use to do it? I doubt ANYONE in SOMD has specialized sidewalk snow removal equipment.. the ones I saw were using two road graters, several bobcats, workers with shovels, front loaders.. so if you had the millions dollars wOrth of equipment to do it you too could have made 30k.
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shoveling snow was not an accurate statement of the work, it was moving block ice off the walks
Snow, followed by melt, by snow, then freeze, then rain....
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
itsbob said:
Did you see the equipment they had to use to do it? I doubt ANYONE in SOMD has specialized sidewalk snow removal equipment.. the ones I saw were using two road graters, several bobcats, workers with shovels, front loaders.. so if you had the millions dollars wOrth of equipment to do it you too could have made 30k.
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Yup.

In the early 1920's, when we were in Laurel, we needed a 1 mile long ditch, 6' wide, 6' deep, to lay two 12" water mains from the lake to the greenhouses. It was cheaper to do it with men, shovels, picks, than to rent or even buy one of the few pieces of equipment that could do it. Can you imagine that today? "wanted, ditch diggers..."
 
CrashTest

CrashTest

Well-Known Member
Local "leaders" shot themselves in the feet by having parades and declaring a GMR "rebirth". Now they're stuck having to act like they care.
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
BernieP said:
shoveling snow was not an accurate statement of the work, it was moving block ice off the walks
Snow, followed by melt, by snow, then freeze, then rain....
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And why was it like that? Because nobody gave an EFF til it was piled higher and deeper. If the county and people who are responsible (business owners with frontage) were acting responsibly, then it would have been cleared as it happened, not waited til the road plows piled it six feet deep.
 
N

nutz

Well-Known Member
Larry Gude said:
Yup.

In the early 1920's, when we were in Laurel, we needed a 1 mile long ditch, 6' wide, 6' deep, to lay two 12" water mains from the lake to the greenhouses. It was cheaper to do it with men, shovels, picks, than to rent or even buy one of the few pieces of equipment that could do it. Can you imagine that today? "wanted, ditch diggers..."
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No OSHA standards to abide by and people were willing to work.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
nutz said:
No OSHA standards to abide by and people were willing to work.
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Moreso simply demographics and economics; lots and lots of post war hands with nothing to do, very very few machines. I'll grant the work ethic but if it would have been cheaper to use a machine that would have been the choice even then. :shrug:
 
H

Hannibal

Active Member
Larry Gude said:
Moreso simply demographics and economics; lots and lots of post war hands with nothing to do, very very few machines. I'll grant the work ethic but if it would have been cheaper to use a machine that would have been the choice even then. :shrug:
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There are a ton of differences in play now in comparison. Most places won't let you limit the depth to 6' when placing a 12" line assuming adequate pipe bedding and coverage (aggregate). All engineering now and BS with frost lines, etc.

At 5' deep, you now have to shore the excavation so you will need something big to manipulate the trench box or shoring items. We could go on an on but we've created so much policy and requirements (some good - some not) that you simply could never operate that way again. More to the point now, you'd spend just as much designing/engineering, permitting, land grabbing, enviromental reviewing, etc. now as it would cost you to actually build the thing.
 
H

Hannibal

Active Member
I don't think the total is out of line. It was ESTIMATED to cost between $20k and $30k. $20k can be spent in an operation like this in no time. They won't buy it out via competative bid. It will likely be done in house which pays the gov't employees higher hourly rates than a GC would. It would probably have an insane amount of oversight as well.

Dump trucks to move will cost you $60-$70/hr - more at night ($750-$800/day). Full lane closures/maintenance of traffic, etc. Rubber tire equipment capable in moving large volumes of snow while not destroying the area. Figure $100 - $125/hr each peice - so roughly $1000/day.

So if they plan on doing several days of this or require several crews = $20k - $30k is gone in no time. And last time I checked, the State guys don't exactly hump it to get it done. Why should they? We pay no matter how much it costs .......
 
NorthBeachPerso

NorthBeachPerso

Honorary SMIB
glhs837 said:
And why was it like that? Because nobody gave an EFF til it was piled higher and deeper. If the county and people who are responsible (business owners with frontage) were acting responsibly, then it would have been cleared as it happened, not waited til the road plows piled it six feet deep.
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Most small business owners are piles of #### (no offense to those of you who aren't piles of ####). North Beach tried to enact a sidewalk clearing ordinance several years ago for the commercial areas and you should have heard the screaming. 'We can't afford it", "What if it's Monday when we're all closed, we need a day off, too", "What if we have to use salt, we'll go bankrupt" and on and ####ing on and ####ing on.

The former owner of the gas station wouldn't plow out his pumps when it snowed and then would bitch because no one was getting gas.
 
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H

Hannibal

Active Member
It comes down to who owns the responsibility. If the County/Town has the responsibility of clearing their ROW - they should budget for it and take care it. In the winters where they have to do the work (a lot), they may lose against their budget. On years they don't need to, they make money on their budget. That's business.

If the business owner's are legally obligated to clear their sidewalks - then they should do it. That's the deal they accepted. If it's not the responsibility, they can then chose whether or not they do it. And with that, comes the people's choice to visit their business or not.
 
getbent

getbent

Thats how them b*tch's R
Hannibal said:
It comes down to who owns the responsibility. If the County/Town has the responsibility of clearing their ROW - they should budget for it and take care it. In the winters where they have to do the work (a lot), they may lose against their budget. On years they don't need to, they make money on their budget. That's business.

If the business owner's are legally obligated to clear their sidewalks - then they should do it. That's the deal they accepted. If it's not the responsibility, they can then chose whether or not they do it. And with that, comes the people's choice to visit their business or not.
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They talked about who's responsibility it was on the radio. Not sure they ever got a straight answer. I thought something in the paper said the county basically said it's not business owners responsibility but they counted on them in the past to help. I guess this year they didn't want to help.
 
getbent

getbent

Thats how them b*tch's R
"Maryland law says that after sidewalks and bicycle paths are constructed by the State Highway Administration along state roads “they shall be maintained and repaired by the political subdivision in which they are located.”


"A county government statement said the county has traditionally relied on the willingness of residents and businesses to clear sidewalks in front of their homes and businesses because funds and forces were not available. Residents and businesses are encouraged to clear the walks at least one shovel’s width within 24 hours after snowfall ceases."

quoted from http://www.somdnews.com/article/201...d-sidewalks-of-snow&template=southernMaryland
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Hannibal said:
There are a ton of differences in play now in comparison. Most places won't let you limit the depth to 6' when placing a 12" line assuming adequate pipe bedding and coverage (aggregate). All engineering now and BS with frost lines, etc.

At 5' deep, you now have to shore the excavation so you will need something big to manipulate the trench box or shoring items. We could go on an on but we've created so much policy and requirements (some good - some not) that you simply could never operate that way again. More to the point now, you'd spend just as much designing/engineering, permitting, land grabbing, enviromental reviewing, etc. now as it would cost you to actually build the thing.
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Good points, all. :buddies:
 
N

nutz

Well-Known Member
Hannibal said:
At 5' deep, you now have to shore the excavation so you will need something big to manipulate the trench box or shoring items. We could go on an on but we've created so much policy and requirements (some good - some not) that you simply could never operate that way again. More to the point now, you'd spend just as much designing/engineering, permitting, land grabbing, enviromental reviewing, etc. now as it would cost you to actually build the thing.
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If you have the space, you can slope back and avoid the shoring equipment, but then it becomes a "which is cheaper" route. Sometimes too, you have a decision between $1250/day for a machine w/operator vs. 12 laborers @ $10-12.50/hour (unless you're stuck with prevailing wage issues, then it's $18.50/hour/laborer for highway jobs)
 
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