No, Christianity Should Not ‘Welcome’ or ‘Include’ Your Sinf

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
No, Christianity Should Not ‘Welcome’ or ‘Include’ Your Sinful Lifestyle


I got this email a few days ago insisting Christians need to be more “inclusive” of open homosexuals. It’s a popular notion these days, so I thought I’d share this with you and respond here publicly:

Matt, you put yourself on a pedestal as this “great Christian” but you do more harm to the religion than anyone else. As a gay man I can say I’m happy to see how finally a lot of Christians and different churches are realizing that Christianity has to be INCLUSIVE of the LGBTQ community and other lifestyles. Not judging of them. Gays and trans people have felt alienated by Christianity and now progressive Christians have finally started to pull the religion into the 21st century and reach out to all of us. Jesus preached tolerance for all people and lifestyles not HATE. The prodigal son was WELCOMED back not told to go away! You are still trying to make divisions and tell some of us Christians we are not Christians just because we live differently. You are a truly sh*tty person and you come off as a bad writer and an uneducated idiot. Just stop talking. You make Jesus mad every time you write your garbage.

-A gay man who loves Jesus

[clip]

Second, I have never referred to myself as a “great Christian” — or a “great” anything for that matter — so I’m not sure why you put “great Christian” in quotes. I consider myself a greatly flawed Christian, even a “sh*tty” one, as you so helpfully and compassionately noted.

See, you need to stop reading with your emotions and read with your brain, man. Your emotions tell you that anyone who advocates virtue is automatically claiming to be virtuous, because it’s easier to dismiss a point based on the perceived motivations behind it rather than consider the point on its own merits. It’s like I’m saying two plus two equals four, and you’re countering that I’m not such a brilliant mathematician. Well, right, but I never said I was a brilliant mathematician. I just said two plus two equals four, because it does, and because even a stupid man can see that.

It’s difficult to have grown-up conversations these days, because people like yourself see every mention of moral truth as either a personal attack or a statement of superiority. This is the real damage you cause in the Faith. It’s not that you’re sinful — we all are, to be sure — it’s that you want to be coddled. You want to shut down professions of Truth that are inconvenient or uncomfortable. You want to modify Christian teachings not because you tried them and found them wrong, but because, to paraphrase Chesterton, you found them difficult and don’t want to try them.

I have many sins, but I will not tell you they are not sins. I come to Christ a sick and broken man looking for healing. You apparently come a sick and broken man looking to be assured you were never sick and broken to begin with. That is the only real difference between us. Or I should say, it’s the only real difference between Christians and “progressive Christians.” Both groups are sinful, both groups are weak, both groups need Christ desperately, but one wants — though they may so often fail — to go Christ’s way, and the other wants Christ to go theirs.
 
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b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
No, Christianity Should Not ‘Welcome’ or ‘Include’ Your Sinful Lifestyle


I got this email a few days ago insisting Christians need to be more “inclusive” of open homosexuals. It’s a popular notion these days, so I thought I’d share this with you and respond here publicly:

Matt, you put yourself on a pedestal as this “great Christian” but you do more harm to the religion than anyone else. As a gay man I can say I’m happy to see how finally a lot of Christians and different churches are realizing that Christianity has to be INCLUSIVE of the LGBTQ community and other lifestyles. Not judging of them. Gays and trans people have felt alienated by Christianity and now progressive Christians have finally started to pull the religion into the 21st century and reach out to all of us. Jesus preached tolerance for all people and lifestyles not HATE. The prodigal son was WELCOMED back not told to go away! You are still trying to make divisions and tell some of us Christians we are not Christians just because we live differently. You are a truly sh*tty person and you come off as a bad writer and an uneducated idiot. Just stop talking. You make Jesus mad every time you write your garbage.

-A gay man who loves Jesus

[clip]

Second, I have never referred to myself as a “great Christian” — or a “great” anything for that matter — so I’m not sure why you put “great Christian” in quotes. I consider myself a greatly flawed Christian, even a “sh*tty” one, as you so helpfully and compassionately noted.

See, you need to stop reading with your emotions and read with your brain, man. Your emotions tell you that anyone who advocates virtue is automatically claiming to be virtuous, because it’s easier to dismiss a point based on the perceived motivations behind it rather than consider the point on its own merits. It’s like I’m saying two plus two equals four, and you’re countering that I’m not such a brilliant mathematician. Well, right, but I never said I was a brilliant mathematician. I just said two plus two equals four, because it does, and because even a stupid man can see that.

It’s difficult to have grown-up conversations these days, because people like yourself see every mention of moral truth as either a personal attack or a statement of superiority. This is the real damage you cause in the Faith. It’s not that you’re sinful — we all are, to be sure — it’s that you want to be coddled. You want to shut down professions of Truth that are inconvenient or uncomfortable. You want to modify Christian teachings not because you tried them and found them wrong, but because, to paraphrase Chesterton, you found them difficult and don’t want to try them.

I have many sins, but I will not tell you they are not sins. I come to Christ a sick and broken man looking for healing. You apparently come a sick and broken man looking to be assured you were never sick and broken to begin with. That is the only real difference between us. Or I should say, it’s the only real difference between Christians and “progressive Christians.” Both groups are sinful, both groups are weak, both groups need Christ desperately, but one wants — though they may so often fail — to go Christ’s way, and the other wants Christ to go theirs.

Amen, Matt (whoever - I'm thinking maybe Matt Slick from CARM, possibly). People need to repent to gain the Lord, and not the other way around. As a saved sinner myself, I continuously need to examine myself, hold me up to God's standard, and just admit I fall short without the Lord Jesus as my advocate.

The homosexual communi-tuh! must realize they need to change themselves, and not demand God change, or they will fail eternally.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The homosexual communi-tuh! must realize they need to change themselves, and not demand God change, or they will fail eternally.



When you ask for an “inclusive” Christianity, you ask for a Christianity that, rather than calling you to serve it, bends down and serves you. You’re asking to be “included” in the Faith on your own terms. That’s just not how this works, brother. As Christians, we have no authority to “include” you in that way. You must include yourself.

We go out into the world and proclaim the Gospel. We offer an invitation. We extend a greeting. We fight to win souls. But the souls must come of their own accord and must accept the Truth of Christ willingly and in its fullness. You must enter into the Truth. You must be the one who accepts it. You must be the one who “includes” the Truth in your life. Your lifestyle must change to accommodate the Truth, not the other way around.



:yay:
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Gurps,

How do you suppose you reach them?
Do you want them to go to heaven?
Can you expect to reach them by having them at arm's length?
Do you ask everyone at your church if they are homosexual? Can you really know if someone is a homosexual at your church or not?
Can someone lie and be a closet homosexual at your church or not?
Can you reach a homosexual if you are condemning or have a negative attitude towards them?
Do you want homosexuals to hear the gospel at your church?
Can homosexuals hear the gospel at your church if the church is negative?
Would the gospel be received better if you communicated it with love or hate?
Do you have any friends that are homosexuals?
If your neighbor was homosexual, are you still commanded to love them? Who is your neighbor?
Do you think homosexuals deserve to hear the gospel?
Do you think we should have rules to who may hear the gospel?
If I was spiritually blind, how would you treat me as a heathen? Is it my fault that I am blind? Would you blame me? Would you attack someone verbally who was blind?
What is your gospel?

When you give me your answers, please give me a plan on how to deal with your stated problem.

Chuck
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
All those questions are valid ones, but they as a whole in no way invalidate the OP - the Christian church cannot allow known homosexuality or any other known sin of individuals to continue among the body. The practices must be abandoned and repented of by those holding those vices.

Preach the Gospel to all, condemn no one, but we must judge based on the Bible, and react accordingly to biblical discipline in order to not infect the overall body. You of all people know that, and preach it accordingly, especially concerning catholics.

Let me know when and where you allow open homosexuality into your meetings, condone it, and allow it to stay and continue.

It seems harsh, but to those who openly want to flaunt God, it will be harsh.

Do you think practicing homosexuality and claiming salvation will work?
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
Chuckt finally posted something that made sense. And brings up good points. How do you evaluate the church? Who is to say they can evaluate a sin or the sinner? I started as a baptist and they threw us out of the church because they rooted around in our trash and found out my Dad drank. Just socially. He was choir leader, Sunday School teacher, deacon, building committee, etc. Was a great man.

Is drinking a sin? Hmmmmm.

Same thing with homosexuality. If you are open and flagrant and your church says it's a sin, then yep, if you want to stay in that church, better change. But are the churches going out on modern day with hunts?

Messy indeed.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Same thing with homosexuality. If you are open and flagrant and your church says it's a sin, then yep, if you want to stay in that church, better change. But are the churches going out on modern day with hunts?

Messy indeed.

Do you know what George Washington did? He examined every church member and asked them questions point by point on the Apostle's creed.
One of the teachers that was over my house believes he was trying to root out Catholicism or the Church of England and get away from those things.

Every church is different. Every Baptist church is independent even though they might be part of a group.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
the difference lies in, intent ....


are you still shacked up with your gf refusing to quit living in sin - :slam: you are out a here
are you living alone, and occasionally falling to resist the temptations of the flesh, or the bottle, or stealing, or lying or swearing, or ] - come on brother lets pray for strength and forgiveness
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
the difference lies in, intent ....


are you still shacked up with your gf refusing to quit living in sin - :slam: you are out a here
are you living alone, and occasionally falling to resist the temptations of the flesh, or the bottle, or stealing, or lying or swearing, or ] - come on brother lets pray for strength and forgiveness

And what would that do?

It sounds like the door of the closed fist. Come on in. We're going to judge you up and down. Do you think it would work?
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
12072777_1000037670037779_4232881947833857442_n.jpg
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
the difference lies in, intent ....


are you still shacked up with your gf refusing to quit living in sin - :slam: you are out a here
are you living alone, and occasionally falling to resist the temptations of the flesh, or the bottle, or stealing, or lying or swearing, or ] - come on brother lets pray for strength and forgiveness

Isn't being divorced and remarried the same thing?
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
Nice, but irrelevant to this topic. Too bad you left out the practicing homosexual. A coffee shop, like the workroom floor, or a football game, is not a church, doctrinal, belief situation. Don't try and be cute with God.

Well, at least we know who the a$$hole is now....
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
"I think Jesus is happiest when we keep hate in our heart for our neighbor" said b23hqb.

It is the way of the evangelicals. I love Jesus, cause he'll get me a heaven condo even though I sin it up here, I just has to be warshed in the blood! And they tend to not like what Jesus stood for, which was standing up for those that the rest of society looked down upon and that didn't quite fit in. You know, the love thy neighbor, do unto others stuff. unless they think different than you.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
It is the way of the evangelicals. I love Jesus, cause he'll get me a heaven condo even though I sin it up here, I just has to be warshed in the blood! And they tend to not like what Jesus stood for, which was standing up for those that the rest of society looked down upon and that didn't quite fit in. You know, the love thy neighbor, do unto others stuff. unless they think different than you.

It is usually the other way around.

My neighbor was the town gossip and occasionally made up lies about the neighbors. She was retired and because her husband was retired and had all the time to manicure her lawn, she spent her day thinking she was greater than all the other neighbors when she didn't manicure her lawn but she made sure to gossip about all the neighbors who worked and didn't have as much time to spend on their lawns.

And she thought because her husband did the lawn that she was a good person.
 
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