Hybrid Heat Pump Water Heater

NIU_Huskies

New Member
Does anyone have any experience with a hybrid heat pump water heater? SMECO is giving a $500 rebate and then you get a $300 federal tax credit. $800 worth of refunds pretty much pays for two of the models down below.

My understanding is its very similar to an HVAC heat pump that you use to cool and heat your house, however, these are supposed to be much more efficient (up to 70%) than your regular electric water heater and they just pull in the ambient area within the room that they are installed.

I was looking at the following three models:

1. Rheem XE50T12EH45U0 (cost of $1,399 at Home Depot) - would save me $456* per year in electric costs over my current water heater.

2. GE GEH50DFEJSR (cost of $999.00 at Lowes) - would save me $517* per year in electric costs over my current water heater.

3. Whirlpool HPSE2K50HD045V (cost of $1,044.89 at Lowes) - would save me $483* per year in electric costs over my current water heater.

* Based on $0.14 per kwh energy rate

My current electric water heater is 19 years old and uses 5,047 kwh / year, which comes out to $707 per year in electric costs.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Here's my post from another similar thread.

Hybrid water heaters have a heat pump on them. They don't work in conjunction with your house heat pump.

FHRs (First Hour Rates) on some new (like Rheem) hybrid water heaters are upwards of 70+ gallons for 50 gallon models. A similar Rheem electric water heater has a FHR of about 60 gallons. So homeowners should do some calculations on what their FHRs are and size your water heater to that. (FHRs aren't how much water it holds, FYI)

The main difference being recovery times. A hybrid water heater recovery time is only about 8 gallons per hour (depending on ambient air temp), while your basic electric water heater is close to 22 gallons per hour. The difference is, the heat pump only draws about 550 watts compared to 4,500 watts from standard electric heating elements. So if an average shower uses 16 gallons of hot water, the heat pump would run about 2 hours to reheat the water and use about 1.2 kilowatt hours of electricity. For the same 16 gallons of water, a standard electric water heater would take about 48 minutes at 4,500 watts of power which is about 3.2 kilowatt hours, almost three times the energy.

Basically, even if it runs longer to heat the water, it's still cheaper. Unless you're running a hair salon or something where you need hot water all the time, most people have periods of time where they don't use any hot water. That's when the hybrid units have time to heat the water back up (especially if it's in your basement during the winter, it'll take longer, just like your home heat pump becomes less efficient the colder it gets).

Not sure what you mean by running water lines to your existing heat pumps.

Typically these water heaters have a switch to go from heat pump only to hybrid or electric only, so it doesn't necessarily have to switch to electric heat during the winter. It's basically a reverse refrigerator sitting on top of the water heater. In terms of efficiency, they are very much efficient. When 25%+ of your electric bill is heating water, some people want it.

Like I said, it's not for everyone.

For someone like me, with 2 people living at home and using hot water 2-3 times a day, it could make sense because it has all day to heat the water back up.

Besides, even with a $500 SMECO rebate, you're still talking about a $1,000+ water heater compared to a 12-year electric water heater in the $500 range.
 
I've looked into them, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

You seem to be more focused on costs and cost of operation than anything else. This is ok, but don't overlook the physics of a unit like this. As Chris pointed out above, the cooler the environment, the longer it takes to recover, especially if it's in a cool basement. If you have a lot of back-to-back hot water usage, like early morning showers, you may not make it thru all the showers before you get cool water. If the heater is a hybrid, it will kick over to electric heat mode to recover, and you may be losing your savings.

Another aspect of heat pump hot water heaters is that they act like dehumidifiers. In the process of extracting heat from the air, they also extract water. This water needs to be drained away. If you don't have a drain handy, you need to get one installed. Emptying a bucket won't work.

Check on the reliability of the units you're looking at. The older GE hybrids have a terrible repair history with control boards failing, and trouble getting them repaired. I don't know if they've resolved that issue by now. Do a Google search of your model repair issues.
 

NIU_Huskies

New Member
All good points. Yes, i am predominately concerned with reducing my electrical bill but also would like a reliable unit. Ideally, we're talking about a nearly $40 reduction in my monthly electric bill.

This would go in my utility room (11.5 feet by 6.5 feet in size) where my furnace and washer and dryer are located, which is about the same temperature as the rest of the house. I do not have a basement so i would assume it would be rather efficient since it will be on the main level of the house.

As for draining, looks like you can buy a condensate pump for about $60 (which of course adds to your monthly electric usage) or i would assume it could be drained out of the room using PVC pipe like my coil unit for the home heat pump system.

What does the typical installation cost of a tank water heater cost? Considering there is no electrical upgrade required (like tankless) there shouldn't be many expenses for parts except for probably re-routing your plumbing connections to reach the new water heaters connection points.
 
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NIU_Huskies

New Member
Check on the reliability of the units you're looking at. The older GE hybrids have a terrible repair history with control boards failing, and trouble getting them repaired. I don't know if they've resolved that issue by now. Do a Google search of your model repair issues.

I was looking at the reviews for the GE model on Lowe's website and out of 580 reviews it has 4.5/5 stars.

Sounds like it was as you said, that the first version of the product had most of the issues. It appears that they are on their 2nd or 3rd version of this product now.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
Personally I think those costs are overstated. I was gone for two weeks so I turned the breaker for my water heater off, considering I wasn't home to use any electricity for other stuff to I figured my bill would be quite a bit lower but it really wasn't.
 

NIU_Huskies

New Member
Personally I think those costs are overstated. I was gone for two weeks so I turned the breaker for my water heater off, considering I wasn't home to use any electricity for other stuff to I figured my bill would be quite a bit lower but it really wasn't.

How long have you had your heat pump water heater? Maybe you're already seeing the cost reduction in your bill so turning it off doesn't change much.

My current 19 year old water heater uses 5,047 kwh / year. If the GE product uses 1,351 kwh / year that would be a 73% energy reduction from my current water heater. I'm currently paying $747 per year (at SMECO rate of 0.148 kwh) for my water heater, which works out to $62 a month of electric.

It looks like even the most efficient electric-only water heaters are only in the 4600 kwh / year range. So over the last 19 years they've barely gotten more efficient.
 
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meddauna

Member
I have the GE hybrid heat pump water heater from Lowes, and I like having it. Before I had it my lowest electric bill was somewhere between $85 and $100, and my lowest electric bill since I've had it was around $59; an impressive reduction. The fact that it also functions as a dehumidifier is a plus when it gets humid in the house. Because it is a heat pump, it takes heat from the air, which means it cools whatever space it lives in; I'm looking forward to a relatively frosty basement in the summer. As long as I opened the basement vents for heat in the winter it didn't get overly cold.

The installation instructions want 100 cubic feet of air in whatever room it's in so it has enough air mass and flow to heat water. If you're putting this in a small closet, they sell a venting kit for it so the cold air vents outside and keeps it efficient.

It runs on an electric motor that generates noise. It can be little loud if the utility room door isn't shut.

There are several modes of operation from only heat pump, to a couple variants of hybrid that kick on the normal electric coils at different points for faster recovery, to a pure electric mode. There's even a vacation mode where you input the number of days you're gone and the heater will keep the water at 65º (?) while you're gone and will have hot water when you get home.
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
How long have you had your heat pump water heater? Maybe you're already seeing the cost reduction in your bill so turning it off doesn't change much.

My current 19 year old water heater uses 5,047 kwh / year. If the GE product uses 1,351 kwh / year that would be a 73% energy reduction from my current water heater. I'm currently paying $747 per year (at SMECO rate of 0.148 kwh) for my water heater, which works out to $62 a month of electric.

It looks like even the most efficient electric-only water heaters are only in the 4600 kwh / year range. So over the last 19 years they've barely gotten more efficient.

How long have you had your heat pump water heater? Maybe you're already seeing the cost reduction in your bill so turning it off doesn't change much.

My current 19 year old water heater uses 5,047 kwh / year. If the GE product uses 1,351 kwh / year that would be a 73% energy reduction from my current water heater. I'm currently paying $747 per year (at SMECO rate of 0.148 kwh) for my water heater, which works out to $62 a month of electric.

It looks like even the most efficient electric-only water heaters are only in the 4600 kwh / year range. So over the last 19 years they've barely gotten more efficient.
Don't dismiss the cost of regular check ups by the hvac person. Have you considered an on demand system!
 

NIU_Huskies

New Member
Don't dismiss the cost of regular check ups by the hvac person. Have you considered an on demand system!

I've looked into the tankless water heaters and there appears to be a significant cost associated with them. I would likely need to have my electrical panel upgraded since it looks like they run on 60+ amps.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
I've looked into the tankless water heaters and there appears to be a significant cost associated with them. I would likely need to have my electrical panel upgraded since it looks like they run on 60+ amps.

On demand are much better if you have gas, I wouldn't do it with electric.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
Why? I'm running one of each (propane and electric, 2 zones) with no issues so far.

Does the electric one cover something high flow such as a shower in the winter months when the water needs the most heating?

I see electric ones as fine for sinks etc but it takes a lot of current for high flow lines.
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
Does the electric one cover something high flow such as a shower in the winter months when the water needs the most heating?

I see electric ones as fine for sinks etc but it takes a lot of current for high flow lines.

Electric one does main house, 3 full baths + laundry. Propane is for master bath, 2nd laundry and garage.
 

NIU_Huskies

New Member
SMECO is offering a bonus $50 to their $500 rebate (for $550 total) on Hybrid Heat Pump water heaters through June 12th.

Add that to the $300 federal credit and you're going to get $850 back on the purchase of one.

At that point, you're essentially paying less than the cost of a normal electric water heater. The GE one is on sale at Lowes for $999 right now.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
SMECO is offering a bonus $50 to their $500 rebate (for $550 total) on Hybrid Heat Pump water heaters through June 12th.

Add that to the $300 federal credit and you're going to get $850 back on the purchase of one.

At that point, you're essentially paying less than the cost of a normal electric water heater. The GE one is on sale at Lowes for $999 right now.

Hell of a deal. The reviews for GE hybrids don't make me feel warm and fuzzy though.
 

NIU_Huskies

New Member
Hell of a deal. The reviews for GE hybrids don't make me feel warm and fuzzy though.

The poorer reviews appear to be on the first models. Apparently the current GE hybrid is the 2nd revised model (or 3rd?).

Either way its warrantied for 10 years and at $150 can you really complain that much?
 
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Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
The poorer reviews appear to be on the first models. Apparently the current GE hybrid is the 2nd revised model (or 3rd?).

Either way its warrantied for 10 years and at $150 can you really complain that much?

It's not me I have to worry about. It's my wife when we run out of hot water and she says "why'd you have to buy this piece of crap" :lol:
 
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