Trump abruptly ends Commission on Voter fraud

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
Trump abruptly ended Commission on Voter fraud yesterday after failing to turn up any evidence to back up his claims of widespread voter fraud


"In fact, no state has uncovered significant evidence to support the president’s claim, and election officials, including many Republicans, have strongly rejected it.

Mr. Trump established the commission after his repeated insistence, without credible evidence, that widespread voter fraud explained how Hillary Clinton received about 2.9 million more votes while he won the presidency in the Electoral College.

It is an issue that continues to resonate with his base voters, and Mr. Trump has mentioned it in recent rallies, but there have been few Republicans in Congress who have followed him.
"


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/politics/trump-voter-fraud-commission.html
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Trump abruptly ended Commission on Voter fraud yesterday after failing to turn up any evidence to back up his claims of widespread voter fraud


"In fact, no state has uncovered significant evidence to support the president’s claim, and election officials, including many Republicans, have strongly rejected it.

Mr. Trump established the commission after his repeated insistence, without credible evidence, that widespread voter fraud explained how Hillary Clinton received about 2.9 million more votes while he won the presidency in the Electoral College.

It is an issue that continues to resonate with his base voters, and Mr. Trump has mentioned it in recent rallies, but there have been few Republicans in Congress who have followed him.
"


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/politics/trump-voter-fraud-commission.html

See, the only way to prove voter fraud without ID is to catch someone voting dead (happens all the time), or voting in multiple areas (happens all the time). But, to find out if someone voted as if they are someone else, you have to have ID to show that they are voting as someone other than themselves. If they say their name is Bob, but their ID says their name is Joe, you've got a pretty good reason to suspect they are not who they are trying to vote as. Or, if they are not in the country legally (and therefore should not vote), they should not have a valid, voter-capable ID. Then, without the ID, they can't legally vote.

Now, we know that the vast majority of voter fraud is in favor of Democrats. That's why Democrats are against any way of improving catching the voter fraud that occurs. One argument they've used is that voter ID is racist, because (in their view, not mine or any other conservative's mind) minorities are too stupid or incompetent to get an ID, even when they're free. So, therefore, I posted a meme of a bunch of stuff where ID is required (and it was pointed out the meme misses some really good ones, which is true), but no one says that those things are racist, just a voter ID.

So, that points out hypocrisy, which is a great indicator of there being a different motive than the stated one.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
See, the only way to prove voter fraud without ID is to catch someone voting dead (happens all the time), or voting in multiple areas (happens all the time). But, to find out if someone voted as if they are someone else, you have to have ID to show that they are voting as someone other than themselves. If they say their name is Bob, but their ID says their name is Joe, you've got a pretty good reason to suspect they are not who they are trying to vote as. Or, if they are not in the country legally (and therefore should not vote), they should not have a valid, voter-capable ID. Then, without the ID, they can't legally vote.

Now, we know that the vast majority of voter fraud is in favor of Democrats. That's why Democrats are against any way of improving catching the voter fraud that occurs. One argument they've used is that voter ID is racist, because (in their view, not mine or any other conservative's mind) minorities are too stupid or incompetent to get an ID, even when they're free. So, therefore, I posted a meme of a bunch of stuff where ID is required (and it was pointed out the meme misses some really good ones, which is true), but no one says that those things are racist, just a voter ID.

So, that points out hypocrisy, which is a great indicator of there being a different motive than the stated one.



See that is exactly your problem. Despite no evidence and lots of evidence to the contrary you actually believe the propaganda the GOP puts out there. Neither of the two things you mentioned happen with any frequency.

In fact the majority of instances of attempted "fraud" were committed by republicans.



When i go to my polling place. Which is the only place I am allowed to vote. It is two blocks from my house. I walk in and state my name and they check the list to make sure my name is there. I then am allowed to vote.

How would an illegal voter know which precinct I am registered to? how would they even know my name What if i had already voted and they tried to use my name again?

Why would someone in this country illegally risk placing one vote with the chance of being arrested or deported?


At some point you rally need to stop and ask yourself does this really make any sense before you keep buying into Fox news and Trumps deliberate misdirection.

They want ID to disenfranchise poor voters. Trump started tweeting about it again this morning. And you are falling for it.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
See that is exactly your problem. Despite no evidence and lots of evidence to the contrary you actually believe the propaganda the GOP puts out there. Neither of the two things you mentioned happen with any frequency.

Links or you are lying...again.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
Links or you are lying...again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ction-were-fraudulent/?utm_term=.98af21f1929f

The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
A 2017 analysis published in The Washington Post concluded that there is no evidence to support Trump’s claim that Massachusetts residents were bused into New Hampshire to vote.
A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.
A review of the 2016 election found four documented cases of voter fraud.
Research into the 2016 election found no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
A 2016 working paper concluded that the upper limit on double voting in the 2012 election was 0.02%. The paper noted that the incident rate was likely much lower, given audits conducted by the researchers showed that “many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error.”
A 2014 paper concluded that “the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”
A 2014 nationwide study found “no evidence of widespread impersonation fraud” in the 2012 election.
A 2014 study that examined impersonation fraud both at the polls and by mail ballot found zero instances in the jurisdictions studied.
A 2014 study by the non-partisan Government Accountability Office, which reflected a literature review of the existing research on voter fraud, noted that the studies consistently found “few instances of in-person voter fraud.”
While writing a 2012 book, a researcher went back 30 years to try to find an example of voter impersonation fraud determining the outcome of an election, but was unable to find even one.
A 2012 study exhaustively pulled records from every state for all alleged election fraud, and found the overall fraud rate to be “infinitesimal” and impersonation fraud by voters at the polls to be the rarest fraud of all: only 10 cases alleged in 12 years. The same study found only 56 alleged cases of non-citizen voting, in 12 years.
A 2012 assessment of Georgia’s 2006 election found “no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants.”
A 2011 study by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that, between 2000 and 2010, 21 states had 1 or 0 convictions for voter fraud or other kinds of voting irregularities.
A 2010 book cataloguing reported incidents of voter fraud concluded that nearly all allegations turned out to be clerical errors or mistakes, not fraud.
A 2009 analysis examined 12 states and found that fraud by voters was “very rare,” and also concluded that many of the cases that garnered media attention were ultimately unsubstantiated upon further review.
Additional research on noncitizen voting can be found here: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-noncitizen-voting-vanishingly-rare.
Additional resources can be found here: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-and-reports.
Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

The Fifth Circuit, in an opinion finding that Texas’s strict photo ID law is racially discriminatory, noted that there were “only two convictions for in-person voter impersonation fraud out of 20 million votes cast in the decade” before Texas passed its law.
In its opinion striking down North Carolina’s omnibus restrictive election law —which included a voter ID requirement — as purposefully racially discriminatory, the Fourth Circuit noted that the state “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.”
A federal trial court in Wisconsin reviewing that state’s strict photo ID law found “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of Wisconsin’s elections.”
Even the Supreme Court, in its opinion in Crawford upholding Indiana’s voter ID law, noted that the record in the case “contains no evidence of any [in-person voter impersonation] fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history.” Two of the jurists who weighed in on that case at the time — Republican-appointed former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and conservative appellate court Judge Richard Posner — have since announced they regret their votes in favor of the law, with Judge Posner noting that strict photo ID laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”
Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare




https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
You are kidding right?

None of those links prove that a single false vote was cast.

Would you mind sharing with us what the brand of your blinders is? I've been looking for some good ones and you've obviously got some....
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
Would you mind sharing with us what the brand of your blinders is? I've been looking for some good ones and you've obviously got some....

Feel free to read any of the links I provided for further enlightenment, Your endless childish insult with no substance are tiring and only prove that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Either prove your point or shut up.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
How would an illegal voter know which precinct I am registered to? how would they even know my name What if i had already voted and they tried to use my name again?

Why would someone in this country illegally risk placing one vote with the chance of being arrested or deported?

Phone book.

Maryland keeps wanting to register my friends wife who is not yet a citizen, she has also been called for jury duty several times and they keep wanting to put her on a jury.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
Phone book.

Maryland keeps wanting to register my friends wife who is not yet a citizen, she has also been called for jury duty several times and they keep wanting to put her on a jury.

Well call me when she votes but none of that is proof of voter fraud its proof of incompetence.


Do you really think illegal immigrants are combing through phone books ( do those even exist anymore?) finding names and then guessing which precinct to go vote at all to cast 1 vote at the risk of being arrested and deported?


Why would anyone do that?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
You are kidding right?

None of those links prove that a single false vote was cast.

See, that's the point. It's very hard to prove false votes were cast (other than dead people voting, more registered voters than citizens, more votes than registered voters, etc.) if you can't show who is voting via a voter ID.

I could drive from county to county, state to state, and vote all voting day. I could get absentee voter cards, and vote as many times as I like based on knowledge of the voter rolls and death rolls - or, wait, should there be no voter rolls? I could get as many people into the country illegally (or, even legally) and get them to vote the way I want by promising them things like sanctuary to be here.

So, the whole reason for voter IDs is to make voter fraud easier to prove. Today, it's very difficult.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Which is the only place I am allowed to vote.

First, this is patently false. I am 100% certain you could vote absentee. And, it is even more false for many other states - such as those that do a great deal of voting via the mail. Or, there are places that take the votes from people not registered THERE and hold them, in case they are needed later.

I walk in and state my name and they check the list to make sure my name is there. I then am allowed to vote.

How do they know you are you?

How would an illegal voter know which precinct I am registered to? how would they even know my name What if i had already voted and they tried to use my name again?

Why would someone in this country illegally risk placing one vote with the chance of being arrested or deported?

Your address and voter rolls, your address and voter rolls, if you're dead that's much easier - or, if the rolls are inaccurate for some reason (did you read the first link?) it makes it much easier too, and for sanctuary.

At some point you rally need to stop and ask yourself does this really make any sense before you keep buying into Fox news and Trumps deliberate misdirection.

I've been saying this is necessary since I case my first vote for Reagan many decades ago. It was a problem then, and it's a far worse problem now.

They want ID to disenfranchise poor voters. Trump started tweeting about it again this morning. And you are falling for it.

I'm falling for nothing. There is no charge for voter IDs in any state that requires them, and in the states that try to make it a requirement they always include a caveat to make it free to those who need it free.

The difference is, it's all about law and order and ensuring only those who are supposed to vote are the ones who do vote. This is a problem for Democrats, not Republicans. It's a problem for dishonest citizens, not honest ones, which is not partisan in any way.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Well call me when she votes but none of that is proof of voter fraud its proof of incompetence.


Do you really think illegal immigrants are combing through phone books ( do those even exist anymore?) finding names and then guessing which precinct to go vote at all to cast 1 vote at the risk of being arrested and deported?


Why would anyone do that?

I don't think they do it to case one vote, no. I think they do it to cast millions.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
See, that's the point. It's very hard to prove false votes were cast (other than dead people voting, more registered voters than citizens, more votes than registered voters, etc.) if you can't show who is voting via a voter ID.

I could drive from county to county, state to state, and vote all voting day. I could get absentee voter cards, and vote as many times as I like based on knowledge of the voter rolls and death rolls - or, wait, should there be no voter rolls? I could get as many people into the country illegally (or, even legally) and get them to vote the way I want by promising them things like sanctuary to be here.

So, the whole reason for voter IDs is to make voter fraud easier to prove. Today, it's very difficult.



You can't prove a negative. You can't prove what is not happening.

How exactly are you going to match those illegals up with the right names and voting precincts?


Just because people who have died haven't been removed from the voter roll doesn't mean fraud is occurring. Again. you would have to know that person full name and where the were registered. Do you know how many places that could be my voting center within a mile of my house? Its not as easy as you claim and you have no proof it is happening and in fact we have proof there were only four cases in 2016.


What you do have proof of is names not purged from rolls which is simple human laziness or error.

There isn't a nefarious scheme behind everything. Stop listening to Trumps lies and use some common sense.




Let try it as an experiment.

Next voting day drive from county to county and state to state showing up and random polling places and spitting out a name. How are you going to ensure it matches a name on the rolls? How are you going to ensure you get to the polls before all the actual voters who's place you are taking?
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
I don't think they do it to case one vote, no. I think they do it to cast millions.

How?


You are seeing a bunch of information and conflating it to be a conspiracy Unfortunately common sense dictates its not happening and could not happen the way you are theorizing
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
First, this is patently false. I am 100% certain you could vote absentee. And, it is even more false for many other states - such as those that do a great deal of voting via the mail. Or, there are places that take the votes from people not registered THERE and hold them, in case they are needed later.



How do they know you are you?



Your address and voter rolls, your address and voter rolls, if you're dead that's much easier - or, if the rolls are inaccurate for some reason (did you read the first link?) it makes it much easier too, and for sanctuary.



I've been saying this is necessary since I case my first vote for Reagan many decades ago. It was a problem then, and it's a far worse problem now.



I'm falling for nothing. There is no charge for voter IDs in any state that requires them, and in the states that try to make it a requirement they always include a caveat to make it free to those who need it free.

The difference is, it's all about law and order and ensuring only those who are supposed to vote are the ones who do vote. This is a problem for Democrats, not Republicans. It's a problem for dishonest citizens, not honest ones, which is not partisan in any way.



You have no idea what you are talking about regarding free voter ID. In DC you can obtain free ID if you are homeless over 65 or you were just released from prison. There is no free voter id card.

If there was a caveat that allowed that I would have no problem having ID required to vote.


When I vote they know it is me because i state my name and show up at my polling place. 1 name = 1 vote
 

transporter

Well-Known Member
Trump abruptly ended Commission on Voter fraud yesterday after failing to turn up any evidence to back up his claims of widespread voter fraud


"In fact, no state has uncovered significant evidence to support the president’s claim, and election officials, including many Republicans, have strongly rejected it.

Mr. Trump established the commission after his repeated insistence, without credible evidence, that widespread voter fraud explained how Hillary Clinton received about 2.9 million more votes while he won the presidency in the Electoral College.

It is an issue that continues to resonate with his base voters, and Mr. Trump has mentioned it in recent rallies, but there have been few Republicans in Congress who have followed him.
"


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/politics/trump-voter-fraud-commission.html

Huh...you missed that I posted this news a couple days ago?
 
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