indictment againt a bunch of russians

[Midnightrider]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/russians-indicted-in-special-counsel-robert-muellers-probe.html


includes the hits such as:
money laundering
Russians buying advertising on social media
Russians organizing trump rallies
conspiracy with persons known and unknown to the grand jury

 

[Gilligan]

Rosenstein said there is no allegation in the indictment that any American was a knowing participant in the scheme, nor is there any allegation that the scheme affected the outcome of the election.

 

[This_person]

I'm not sure it's a yawner to have this. If there is good evidence here that they actually were doing wrong stuff, and if there's some kind of proof it goes back to the Russian government, this should definitely have an impact on US-Russia relations.

 

[GURPS]

sounds like some made up there ......


923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States

The general conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. § 371, creates an offense "f two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose. (emphasis added). See Project, Tenth Annual Survey of White Collar Crime, 32 Am. Crim. L. Rev. 137, 379-406 (1995)(generally discussing § 371).

The operative language is the so-called "defraud clause," that prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States. This clause creates a separate offense from the "offense clause" in Section 371. Both offenses require the traditional elements of Section 371 conspiracy, including an illegal agreement, criminal intent, and proof of an overt act.

Although this language is very broad, cases rely heavily on the definition of "defraud" provided by the Supreme Court in two early cases, Hass v. Henkel, 216 U.S. 462 (1910), and Hammerschmidt v. United States, 265 U.S. 182 (1924). In Hass the Court stated:

The statute is broad enough in its terms to include any conspiracy for the purpose of impairing, obstructing or defeating the lawful function of any department of government . . . (A)ny conspiracy which is calculated to obstruct or impair its efficiency and destroy the value of its operation and reports as fair, impartial and reasonably accurate, would be to defraud the United States by depriving it of its lawful right and duty of promulgating or diffusing the information so officially acquired in the way and at the time required by law or departmental regulation.

[clip]

[cited in USAM 9-42.001]

They cheat the government out of money or property;
They interfere or obstruct legitimate Government activity; or
They make wrongful use of a governmental instrumentality.

 

[GURPS]

Internet Research Agency


The Internet Research Agency (IRA), also known as Glavset[2] and known in Russian Internet slang as the Trolls from Olgino or kremlebots, is a Russian company, based in Saint Petersburg, that engages in online influence operations on behalf of the Russian government. The agency has employed fake accounts registered on major social networks, discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services in order to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1000 paid bloggers and commenters reportedly worked only in a single building of the Agency in 2015.

The extent to which the Russian government tried to influence public opinion using social media became widely known after a June 2014 BuzzFeed article greatly expanded on government documents published by hackers earlier that year.[3] The IRA gained worldwide media attention by June 2015, when one of its offices was reported as having data from fake accounts used for biased Internet trolling. Subsequently, there were news reports of individuals receiving monetary compensation for performing these tasks.[1]

The Justice Department on Friday, February 16, 2018 indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian groups, including the Internet Research Agency, of violating criminal laws with the intent to interfere "with U.S. elections and political processes", according to the agency.[4]

 

[Gilligan]

I'm not sure it's a yawner to have this. If there is good evidence here that they actually were doing wrong stuff, and if there's some kind of proof it goes back to the Russian government, this should definitely have an impact on US-Russia relations.

This is just the continuation of what was already reported some time ago. The amount of money they spent (Facebook mostly) and the actual exposure they received from it was a complete joke. They reached very few people and there is zero indication that the few they did reach were influenced in any way. What was particularly amusing was that the clowns spent a fair amount of their limited budget targeting area like MD were the outcome of the election was a foregone conclusion no matter what. LMAO....hopefully they'll make a movie about it..a comedy, of course.

It is indeed a yawner...but hey..all that investigating, they had to report finding something.

 

[GURPS]

BREAKING: Mueller Indicts 13 Russian Nationals For Election Meddling



“Some Defendants, posing as US persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign,” read the indictment.



OMG NO ... communicating without revealing who you really are


"Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ('Trump campaign') and disparaging Hillary Clinton," the indictment reads. "Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities."

 

[GURPS]

I'm not sure it's a yawner to have this. If there is good evidence here that they actually were doing wrong stuff .....

Read the Statute quoted ... it is SO BROAD, you could be charged with for NOT paying your TAXES ....


but yes, Wire Fraud yeah ok

 

[vraiblonde]

I was completely unaware that a US court had any kind of jurisdiction over a foreign citizen, nor was I aware that foreign citizens couldn't advertise on social media or organize a political rally. When did those things become against the law, and more importantly when did the US court system gain judicial authority in other countries?

Does this mean they really can go after Nigerian scammers after all?

On one day, Nov. 12, 2016, the defendants organized a rally in New York to "show your support for President-elect Donald Trump" while at the same time organizing a "Trump is NOT my president rally" that also was held in New York.

So are they pro-Trump or anti-Trump?

And what happens now? Will US forces go to Russia to kidnap these people so they can stand trial in a US court?

 

[vraiblonde]

Also, are they going to go after all those Mexicans and Central Americans who voted illegally? Or do they only care when it's the Russians meddling in our elections?

 

[GURPS]

This is just the continuation of what was already reported some time ago.

Oh NO Gil ... these charges say the IRA Specifically supported TRUMP

 

[GURPS]

Also, are they going to go after all those Mexicans and Central Americans who voted illegally?

Considering the language of;

923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States

The general conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. § 371, creates an offense "f two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose. (emphasis added).

[clip]

The statute is broad enough in its terms to include any conspiracy for the purpose of impairing, obstructing or defeating the lawful function of any department of government . . . (A)ny conspiracy which is calculated to obstruct or impair its efficiency and destroy the value of its operation and reports as fair, impartial and reasonably accurate, would be to defraud the United States by depriving it of its lawful right and duty of promulgating or diffusing the information so officially acquired in the way and at the time required by law or departmental regulation.




I'd bet a C-Note a Good Prosecutor could make a case for Voting Illegally with Interfering with Operation of the US Gov.

 

[Kyle]

Oh NO Gil ... these charges say the IRA Specifically supported TRUMP

Damn! The Irish have barerly quieted down and the Russians already boosted their Acronym!

 

[Midnightrider]

You are going to want to read the indictment for yourself. It clearly says

defendants knowingly and intentionally conspired with each other (and with persons known and unknown to the grand jury)....

Other than the persons in the indictment, who else is known to the grand jury? I can only think of 5.

 

[Starman]

This just seems to be the business of government. Nothing to see here. Nothing new under the sun.

We usually put feet on the ground to foment a “revolution”; Russia and other nations have their tradecraft as well.

 

[Monello]

We have it from the lips of the messiah.

 

[Monello]

We have it from the lips of the messiah.

But seeing how Hillary lost the election, Barry is changing his tune. Stop Whining!

 

[Gilligan]

But seeing how Hillary lost the election, Barry is changing his tune. Stop Whining!

Such a tool...

 

[Hijinx]

Such a tool...

IMO this indictment is a joke. Are these people in America? If they are not what good is the indictment.
Will Russia extradite them,? I don't think so.
Did they actually break any international law? I don't think so.

Now if they are not here, how will they ever be tried?
The indictment is just so much Mueller bullsh1t.

 

[SamSpade]

Why is this even an issue? We've known that Russians tried to influence our elections.
They've been doing it for years. The only reason why it's relevant this cycle is, people are trying to tie it all to Trump.

We know they try to.

What is LAUGHABLE is, the very, very best case they make is, they tried to influence people's opinions.
They tried to get people to change their minds. They didn't publish lies and libel. They tried to persuade people.
And they spent - ready? - millions.

Ha!

Trump and Hillary and outside political groups spent around 5 *billion* on it.
What were they doing? Trying to get people to change their minds.

Does anyone see how stupid the comparison is? It would be like Trump and Hillary each paid for a biilboard
the size of Mount Rushmore, and the Russians posted a post-it note.

The only difference I can see - at all - is that the Russians tried to influence people inside our borders,
because it's no secret that nations around the world publicly declare how they feel about our candidates
within their own.

I just saw a Congressman make the preposterous claim that "100 million" people saw the Russians' ads
on Facebook. Is he delusional? I see something on the Internet and I'll ask "have you seen the video
with the horse, and the rubber chicken?" and they still don't know what I am talking about.
On Facebook I only ever see a fraction of stuff from my own Facebook friends.