Elementary school student brings gun, bullets to school

jazz lady

~*~ Rara Avis ~*~
PREMO Member
Park Hall, Md- On April 18, 2018, deputies and detectives from the St. Mary’s County Sheriff’s Office, along with Special Agents from the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, (NCIS), responded to Park Hall Elementary School located on Hermanville Road, in Park Hall, for the report of a student with a handgun.

Upon arrival officers made contact with a school official who advised a student alerted a staff member another student was in possession of a handgun. The school official made contact with the student in question and later located a loaded semi-automatic handgun in the student’s book bag. Investigation determined an eight year old student brought the weapon to school after he discovered it inside the residence. The student’s residence is located in an off base military housing community and both parents are currently active duty.

The student was placed under arrest and charged as a juvenile with the following criminal
offenses:

. Dangerous Weapon on School Property
. Handgun on Person
. Disturbing School Operations

This investigation will be continued by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service to determine how the student had access to the gun.

http://www.thebaynet.com/articles/0418/elementaryschoolstudentbringsgunbulletstoschool.html
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
They live in one of the base housing areas. That's why NCIS is involved. Both parents are active duty. I have a feeling that they have trouble ahead.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
They live in one of the base housing areas. That's why NCIS is involved. Both parents are active duty. I have a feeling that they have trouble ahead.

I wonder if NCIS would use MD's Child Access Law or have their own guidelines to follow? Different jurisdiction right?
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
That's almost certainly the end of those so-called parents' careers, and rightly so, assuming that that's where the spawn got the weapon from.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
So just for the sake of argument, let's assume the parents did everything right, and have a really sneaky creative kid. They store the weapon in a locked gun safe. The only key to the safe is on Dad's key ring. He keeps his keys in his room on his bedside table at night, out of common/public parts of the house. He even locks the bedroom door at night for further protection. But kid has seen dad use the pin on the door lock once or twice, and sneaks in his room while dad is sleeping, goes and unlocks the safe and secrets the gun in his bookbag to show his friends the next day, then returns the keys.

So how would you pin that one?

I sure did stuff like that as a kid. The only reason I didn't have a police record is I got away with it. God often protects the fools from their own folly.

Here's the problem we face, in my view: If you pay even scant lip service to 2A rights, and allow that people can defend themselves even with a single-shot muzzle loading black powder pistol... If it's gonna be useful at ALL, it's got to be ready for action and accessible. Okay, locked up, I'll allow you that. To defend family, the access to that lock must be within reach. But I haven't yet met a middle-school child that wasn't aware of things that mom and dad really wish they didn't know about, and are curious enough to explore, all teaching and "don't you dare" to the contrary. There is no perfect answer. Kids are gonna get into things. In this case, it wasn't dad's porn stash, it was a little more immediately dangerous. Sucks, but nobody got hurt this time, so junior should get a life-long-memorable whipping, and we move on.

I guess my point is, don't assume the parents did anything wrong.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
So just for the sake of argument, let's assume the parents did everything right, and have a really sneaky creative kid. They store the weapon in a locked gun safe. The only key to the safe is on Dad's key ring. He keeps his keys in his room on his bedside table at night, out of common/public parts of the house. He even locks the bedroom door at night for further protection. But kid has seen dad use the pin on the door lock once or twice, and sneaks in his room while dad is sleeping, goes and unlocks the safe and secrets the gun in his bookbag to show his friends the next day, then returns the keys.

So how would you pin that one?

I sure did stuff like that as a kid. The only reason I didn't have a police record is I got away with it. God often protects the fools from their own folly.

Here's the problem we face, in my view: If you pay even scant lip service to 2A rights, and allow that people can defend themselves even with a single-shot muzzle loading black powder pistol... If it's gonna be useful at ALL, it's got to be ready for action and accessible. Okay, locked up, I'll allow you that. To defend family, the access to that lock must be within reach. But I haven't yet met a middle-school child that wasn't aware of things that mom and dad really wish they didn't know about, and are curious enough to explore, all teaching and "don't you dare" to the contrary. There is no perfect answer. Kids are gonna get into things. In this case, it wasn't dad's porn stash, it was a little more immediately dangerous. Sucks, but nobody got hurt this time, so junior should get a life-long-memorable whipping, and we move on.

I guess my point is, don't assume the parents did anything wrong.

Fair point. When I was a young lad of that age, I knew where every firearm in our house was. Same was true for my friends. On more than one occasion did we sneak off in to the woods with one or two to fire them too. I remember once getting the ram rod totally stuck in an old musket we'd fired...couldn't get the damned thing back out to save our butts and that's exactly what we stood to loose if we had to return the piece to the cabinet with the ramrod stuck in the barrel. LOL...different times.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
So just for the sake of argument, let's assume the parents did everything right, and have a really sneaky creative kid. They store the weapon in a locked gun safe. The only key to the safe is on Dad's key ring. He keeps his keys in his room on his bedside table at night, out of common/public parts of the house. He even locks the bedroom door at night for further protection. But kid has seen dad use the pin on the door lock once or twice, and sneaks in his room while dad is sleeping, goes and unlocks the safe and secrets the gun in his bookbag to show his friends the next day, then returns the keys.

So how would you pin that one?

I sure did stuff like that as a kid. The only reason I didn't have a police record is I got away with it. God often protects the fools from their own folly.

Here's the problem we face, in my view: If you pay even scant lip service to 2A rights, and allow that people can defend themselves even with a single-shot muzzle loading black powder pistol... If it's gonna be useful at ALL, it's got to be ready for action and accessible. Okay, locked up, I'll allow you that. To defend family, the access to that lock must be within reach. But I haven't yet met a middle-school child that wasn't aware of things that mom and dad really wish they didn't know about, and are curious enough to explore, all teaching and "don't you dare" to the contrary. There is no perfect answer. Kids are gonna get into things. In this case, it wasn't dad's porn stash, it was a little more immediately dangerous. Sucks, but nobody got hurt this time, so junior should get a life-long-memorable whipping, and we move on.

I guess my point is, don't assume the parents did anything wrong.

There are a lot of what ifs, ands or buts in your story that need to have happened for that 3rd grade kid to get ahold of that firearm and ammunition.

Yes, I realize that is all any of us have right now is speculation to go on, but I honestly think an 8year old in today's world (maybe when many of us were kids because things and society were different) wouldn't be able to have accomplished all that you have laid out. Not saying you're wrong, but it's a tall order IMO.
 
The firearm could have been locked up, but many of those small gun safes aren't really that secure. - https://lock-picking.wonderhowto.co...clips-coat-hangers-and-even-children-0138523/

Maybe we can wait and see what the investigation determines as to if the weapon was secured or not.
Didn't realize it was that easy. Yikes.

A kid probably wouldn't do this, but I had a Sentry gun safe that was used for things other than a gun. When my house was broken into, this safe had the lock simply busted off and opened. It did not appear to be a real deterrent.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
Parents are responsible for what a child of 8 years old does, end of story.
True, but not end of story. There's a difference in how they would be charged if they were outright negligent, versus if the child bypassed reasonable safety measures implemented by the parents.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
I wonder if NCIS would use MD's Child Access Law or have their own guidelines to follow? Different jurisdiction right?

I think that might be in conflict with the Posse Comitatus Act. Case law indicates that even though NCIS is staffed by civilians they do operate under DON authority and the PCA applies to them.

From the USN/USMC Commanders Quick Reference Legal Handbook - Prohibited activities - DON personnel may not assist civilian law enforcement agencies or personnel by participating in investigations or interrogations. As to the housing, if it is off-base it is not Federal property and that might cause additional problems using NCIS if they intend to conduct a search/seizure.

At best I could see the parents being subjected to non-judicial punishment, under MD law the child access provisions only carry a misdemeanor fine up to $1000, no jail time. Not much teeth in the MD law.
 

black dog

Free America
I think that might be in conflict with the Posse Comitatus Act. Case law indicates that even though NCIS is staffed by civilians they do operate under DON authority and the PCA applies to them.

From the USN/USMC Commanders Quick Reference Legal Handbook - Prohibited activities - DON personnel may not assist civilian law enforcement agencies or personnel by participating in investigations or interrogations. As to the housing, if it is off-base it is not Federal property and that might cause additional problems using NCIS if they intend to conduct a search/seizure.

At best I could see the parents being subjected to non-judicial punishment, [B]under MD law the child access provisions only carry a misdemeanor fine up to $1000, no jail time. Not much teeth in the MD law.


Do you think their should be more bite with this MD law?
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Do you think their should be more bite with this MD law?

Nope, I think it is a dumb feel good law and does nothing to protect anyone.

Edit: that was motivated by the comments found at the OP's link. Many think the parents should lose their 2A rights.
 
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black dog

Free America
Nope, I think it is a dumb feel good law and does nothing to protect anyone.

Edit: that was motivated by the comments found at the OP's link. Many think the parents should lose their 2A rights.

I agree,. It's not mandatory in MD and those States that have this law to secure your booze, medication, poisons, motor vehicles, matches, swimming pools and so on.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
I think that might be in conflict with the Posse Comitatus Act. Case law indicates that even though NCIS is staffed by civilians they do operate under DON authority and the PCA applies to them.

From the USN/USMC Commanders Quick Reference Legal Handbook - Prohibited activities - DON personnel may not assist civilian law enforcement agencies or personnel by participating in investigations or interrogations. As to the housing, if it is off-base it is not Federal property and that might cause additional problems using NCIS if they intend to conduct a search/seizure.

At best I could see the parents being subjected to non-judicial punishment, under MD law the child access provisions only carry a misdemeanor fine up to $1000, no jail time. Not much teeth in the MD law.

The housing may not be within the confines of the NAS, but it is base/military housing.
 
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