KUDOS Wash Post...

[Larry Gude]

...Vrai says Tuesdays are 'Conservative letter' day but I must congratulate this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25667-2004Oct11.html

(there's two pages)

Ones position on abortion are probably among the most emotional we have as a people but that doesn't mean the debate can't be coherent.

 

[Larry Gude]

Also in the same thread...

...a writer is all up in arms about slavery.

To wit:

I was shocked to hear President Bush say during the second debate, when referring to the Dred Scott decision, that slavery wasn't legal under the Constitution.

and...

Slavery was built into the Constitution and wasn't abolished nationwide until after the Civil War

Again, like abortion, it would help, even allowing for free speach and all, if we talked about a given issue in a coherent, factual fashion.

Slaverywas NOT built into the Constitution. It was not legal under the Constitution. It was legal in the publicly accepted way that abortion is.

The Constitution has a built in GUARANTEE that slavery would end once we found the courage, as a people to live up to it.

We are all created equal and have unalienable rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

Slavery was 'legal' in the sense that slaves were defined as property. Taney affirmed this and we went to war and tore ourselves apart over it.

We did the RIGHT thing.

Abortion is the same thing; the argument is that 'it' is a choice (property), not a life.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

"Similarly, Mr. Kerry had difficulty answering the question posed to him about tax dollars being used to support abortions. Instead of answering the question directly, he said he has personal beliefs about abortion but wouldn't want to impose them on others. Does this mean he's willing to impose abortion on those of us who disagree with it by using our tax dollars to support it?"

Kerry is exercising the separation between church & state. He's giving the American woman a choice to make an informed decision about HER body. Bush, on the other hand, would like to leave it in the hands of Supreme Court Justices.

 

[ylexot]

Kerry is exercising the separation between church & state. He's giving the American woman a choice to make an informed decision about HER body. Bush, on the other hand, would like to leave it in the hands of Supreme Court Justices.

Again, that doesn't answer the question. Should people who have moral problem with abortion have to pay for it with their tax dollars?

There are people who disagree with the war in Iraq for moral reasons, but they also have to pay for it with tax dollars. However, the reason for the war is to protect the American people. That is the government's job. Providing abortions is not.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

Again, that doesn't answer the question. Should people who have moral problem with abortion have to pay for it with their tax dollars?

If I get knocked up and decide I don't want the baby, I'm going to pay for the abortion, not you or anyone else.

 

[SmallTown]

There are people who disagree with the war in Iraq for moral reasons, but they also have to pay for it with tax dollars. However, the reason for the war is to protect the American people. That is the government's job. Providing abortions is not.

The balance between protection and cost is a tough call. Tax dollars are also used to keep filthy criminals in jail for their entire life. This is punishment for the criminal, and a sense of protection for people. I would rather just flip the little switch and be done with it. I'm still protected, the criminal got his punishment, and it saves money. A win win win situation.

 

[vraiblonde]

If I get knocked up and decide I don't want the baby, I'm going to pay for the abortion, not you or anyone else.

That's YOU, not Wanda Welfare Queen. SHE will be very happy to have the rest of us pay for her abortions.

Abortion should be against the law, by all rights. It's murder and there's no two ways about it. BUT I happen to be in favor of it. Most people who would get an abortion aren't the cream of the societal crop anyway, and neither are their children. So get 'em before my tax dollars are paying to try them and incarcerate them, I say.

:shrug:

But let's call it what it is and quit pretending it's nothing more than a "choice". Because that's retarded.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

That's YOU, not Wanda Welfare Queen. SHE will be very happy to have the rest of us pay for her abortions.

Abortion should be against the law, by all rights. It's murder and there's no two ways about it. BUT I happen to be in favor of it. Most people who would get an abortion aren't the cream of the societal crop anyway, and neither are their children. So get 'em before my tax dollars are paying to try them and incarcerate them, I say.

I'll break out the Kirby and charge half the murder clinic. Personally, I'd rather spend $400 on an abortion than raise the welfare queens baby for 18 years. :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

Personally, I'd rather spend $400 on an abortion than raise the welfare queens baby for 18 years.

I say take her out, too. :shrug:

 

[Chasey_Lane]

I say take her out, too. :shrug:

Maybe I could borrow Christy's chipper for that.

 

[Larry Gude]

Casey...

Kerry is exercising the separation between church & state.

That's BS and you know better. He is a Catholic seeking the Catholic vote and Catholics don't have a sign up sheet where you decided what you do and don't support before joining. Pure crap double speak. All had to do was say he supports a womans right to choose and will work to keep it so. He has no moral courage because then he knows he'll lose some Catholic votes. Who knows, a courageous stand, right or wrong and maybe he'd pick up votes?

The point I'm making about abortion is that it is NOT settled legally any more than slavery was. It is in legal limbo which is a threat to us all. 30 states apparently are prepared to pass legislation legalizing abortion.

To me, until we legalize drugs and prostitution you have no more right to do whatever you want with your body than I do.

The slavery issue was that slaves, Constitutionally, are OBVIOUSLY not property and therefore have equal rights under the law; viola, end of slavery.

You are entitled to your own opinion as to abortion, but it is a life and it sure as hell is human and abortion is supported typically by people whom wouldn't put Tim McVeigh to death and whom support the rights of snail darters and trees.

It is better if we settle it than leave the legal abortion that is Roe v. Wade (right to privacy) as the Dredd Scott of our day.

 

[2ndAmendment]

If I get knocked up and decide I don't want the baby, I'm going to pay for the abortion, not you or anyone else.

But women on welfare (unconstitutional) want abortions (not a Constitutional right despite what Kerry says) too. Taxpayers pay for those.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

But women on welfare (unconstitutional) want abortions (not a Constitutional right despite what Kerry says) too. Taxpayers pay for those.

Taxpayers also pay for those military individuals who receive them, too. :shrug:

 

[Chasey_Lane]

That's BS and you know better. He is a Catholic seeking the Catholic vote and Catholics don't have a sign up sheet where you decided what you do and don't support before joining. Pure crap double speak. All had to do was say he supports a womans right to choose and will work to keep it so. He has no moral courage because then he knows he'll lose some Catholic votes. Who knows, a courageous stand, right or wrong and maybe he'd pick up votes?

Isn't that statement a bit contradictory? I mean, since when do Catholics support separation between Church & State? IMO, he's turning away the Catholic voters, no? :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

It seems I misunderstood you...

...you said Kerry was exercising seperation of church and state. The fact that the Catholic church damns abortion is coincidental. They aren't real big on murder or stealing either but were not going to say that those issues must then be somehow seperated from faith are we?

In other words, that Kerry's faith expects of him disapproval of abortion can in no way disqualify him from supporting the end of partial birth abortion on seperation of church and state grounds, agreed?

I and others are simply pointing out that Kerry is being a spineless weasel.

 

[Christy]

Taxpayers also pay for those military individuals who receive them, too. :shrug:

Actually no they don't. Abortions aren't paid for as a military benefit. They do however do boob jobs, lipsuction, and tummytucks. :shrug: