National ID card

[vraiblonde]

Why are we so worked up about this? To me it just sounds like, basically, a driver's license that says you're an American citizen. Why would anyone be against this, other than that it's probably another feel-good thing that won't really mean a hill of beans at the end of the day?

 

[ylexot]

Why are we so worked up about this? To me it just sounds like, basically, a driver's license that says you're an American citizen. Why would anyone be against this, other than that it's probably another feel-good thing that won't really mean a hill of beans at the end of the day?

My guess as to why some people don't want it:
They think it's one step towards ID implants (aka - mark of the beast)
They think it will have a tracking system built-in

Other than those, I can't think of any reasons why people are against them. Keep in mind, I do not believe either of those.

I think we should combine it with driver's licenses. Either have them come from the Fed with inputs from the states regarding driver's license info, or have them come from the states with inputs from the Fed regarding ID info and security (anti-tamper, anti-counterfeit). Now that I think about it, that could be one of the reasons people are against it. Maybe the states are worried that the Fed is going to get into their lucrative driver's license businesses.

 

[Kizzy]

I agree Y. Revelation 13:18

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

 

[crabcake]

Why are we so worked up about this? To me it just sounds like, basically, a driver's license that says you're an American citizen. Why would anyone be against this, other than that it's probably another feel-good thing that won't really mean a hill of beans at the end of the day?

I agree ... don't see a problem with it at all. But I think (this was discussed some time ago) that there were some who felt it would infringe upon their rights in some fashion. I don't recall how though. My feeling on it is if you refuse to carry an ID card stating you're an American, GTF out of America. :shrug:

 

[Kizzy]

Yeah, but cards can get lost and stolen.


I agree we need some kind of National Identification System in place. We do have the ability to chip our pets and although I don’t believe I will see it in my lifetime, but chipping humans isn’t too far behind. Christians I think will be leery of anything like this because the bible talks about the mark of the beast and chipping humans just seems like one step closer to the end of time, in their opinion.


I just don't know how it can be done and considered safe.

 

[Bogart]

just something else illegals will figure out how to counterfeit in about 10 seconds :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

One would think that Christians would be thrilled to see the "end times". #1, it means the prophecies in the Bible are true and no one can ridicule them ever again. #2, they're that much closer to seeing God. And #3, it means Jesus is on his way back to Earth to get us all fixed up.

:shrug:

And I'm not trying to make fun of religion, so don't get excited. I'm just curious if that's really a reason people would be against a National ID.

 

[SeaRide]

Just a thought - If you were returning back to USA from .. oh lets say from Canada. One of your kids does not have the national id card thingy. You or your kid lost it somehow somewhere in Niagara Falls area.

What are you going to do when the border officer say your kid can't return to USA?

 

[blacklabman]

If a national ID is passed upon, it should NOT be combined with a driver's license. That should be the right of the states to set driver's license restrictions, i.e. age restrictions.

 

[Toxick]

Christians I think will be leery of anything like this because the bible talks about the mark of the beast and chipping humans just seems like one step closer to the end of time, in their opinion.

That's because many Christians - especially the ones who are in Eschalological panic - seem to forget that prophecy demands that the Mark of the Beast will be taken along with a pledge of alliance with the Antichrist, with a full knowledge of what he is, and with a willful defiance of God.

God is not going to start smiting people and tossing them into hell because, "Whoops? I didn't know that was the Mark!" You will not have to guess what the mark is. You will be told when the time comes.


Personally, I'm more worried about government abuse than I am about the apocolypse. It starts off as an ID card. Next thing it will have your dental records, your medical information, your SSN, you Driver's licence number, you computer passwords, your credit card numbers, and the last known time you took a crap.

It'll end up replacing your keys to your house or PO Box, and they'll be malfunctioning constantly (gov't will buy from the lowest bidder, who will build crap products) and you'll be reported (automatically) for trying to circumvent the security to get into your house. And telemarketers are already jizzing in their shorts in sweet anticipation of being able to get their grubby little paws on every single active phone number in the country - including the unlisted ones.

You'll end up being required to update it constantly, and that'll mean you'll either have to buy a piece of computer hardware and software (j00 b33n h4x0r3d!!1!) in order to make sure it's up to date, or you'll have to go to a government facility and wait in line with a bunch of other people who don't want to be there, and is filled with apathetic civil servants who say things like, "I don't know what to tell you."

I see things damn thing creating more problems than it solves. Honestly.

 

[FromTexas]

Just a thought - If you were returning back to USA from .. oh lets say from Canada. One of your kids does not have the national id card thingy. You or your kid lost it somehow somewhere in Niagara Falls area.

What are you going to do when the border officer say your kid can't return to USA?

You lose passports when in other countries. That gets fixed. They aren't going to say you can't bring your kid back in. Actually, most national ID systems being planned around the globe involve a back-up retinal imaging scan/fingerprint scan/etc...

They already have some airports putting in the technology in Europe where people don't have to wait in long passport lines, etc... if they have coded their retinas and identities. They just walk in, get a retinal scan, and move on.

Of course, years from now, we will be suing all the retinal imaging people because we will find out they cause cancer...

 

[Toxick]

One would think that Christians would be thrilled to see the "end times".

Everyone wants to go to heaven - nobody wants to die.


Not sure how familiar you are with Revelation, but, Christians will most definitely not be thrilled.

 

[SeaRide]

You lose passports when in other countries. That gets fixed. They aren't going to say you can't bring your kid back in. Actually, most national ID systems being planned around the globe involve a back-up retinal imaging scan/fingerprint scan/etc...

They already have some airports putting in the technology in Europe where people don't have to wait in long passport lines, etc... if they have coded their retinas and identities. They just walk in, get a retinal scan, and move on.

Then what's wrong with the passports? why bother with national id system if we have passports ?

 

[vraiblonde]

Not sure how familiar you are with Revelation, but, Christians will most definitely not be thrilled.

You either believe in "let go and let God" or you don't. If you are a true Christian, you should take whatever God throws your way without trying to fight Him or second-guess Him.

But that's all just wool-gathering on my part and not intended for serious discussion, unless someone wants to go there.

Next thing it will have your dental records, your medical information, your SSN, you Driver's licence number, you computer passwords, your credit card numbers, and the last known time you took a crap.

The government can already find that stuff if they want. The thing is, it's so tedious that they only do it if there's a reason, i.e. you're suspected of aiding terrorists or blowing something up. Look at how quick the Feds got ahold of personal information on Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber - and they were TRYING to hide. On people like you and me, it would take them a nanosecond to run us down.

 

[SamSpade]

Why are we so worked up about this? To me it just sounds like, basically, a driver's license that says you're an American citizen. Why would anyone be against this, other than that it's probably another feel-good thing that won't really mean a hill of beans at the end of the day?

Because it's a "feel-good" solution that accomplishes *nothing*. Remember that the 9/11 attackers ALREADY had dozens of legitimate, non-counterfeited driver's licenses. And the slippery slope argument, however specious, raises some concerns - because it really shouldn't be long before tracking of SOME kind is put into all of them. Ever see those old movies where some government official is saying "Papers, please?". That's what this is - "proof" you're allowed to freely move about the country. In some countries, you can't just travel where you want to without permission from the government.

It's not the card I object to, it's what they think they'll do with it. The only way to make this place totally secure from terrorists is to turn the place into some kind of futuristic police state. And I'd rather have the occasional threat of terror than the constant Big Brother.

 

[Hello6]

I for one, welcome our governmental chip implanting overlords.
Why protest if you have nothing to hide? :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

And I'd rather have the occasional threat of terror than the constant Big Brother.

See, that's the other thing - closing the barn door after the horse has already run off. Airport security was a joke before 9-11, now they want to batten down the hatches. It's like, "Hello? They already DID that - why are we taking extreme precautions against something that has already happened?"

Prior to 9-11, all we ever had was embassy bombings and military installation bombings - nothing on our home turf. But it never occurred to our elected officials to take some precautions on the home front. Then the terrorists got off a lucky shot that will most likely NEVER happen again, and suddenly "national security" is the Pet Rock of the oughts and we're talking about spycams and National ID cards.

So I dunno - I'm not particularly nervous about ID cards and such - the Feds can die of boredom tracking my life if they want to. I just think a better way would be to limit immigration, keep a better eye on the "come heres" and shut down countries that subsidize terrorism. The UN is no help - they're more interested in lining their pockets than doing their jobs.

That's why I get so rabid about Bush talking about Palestinian statehood - it's like, yeah, that's a good idea - reward terrorists with their own country. Dur.

 

[Vince]

Why are we so worked up about this? To me it just sounds like, basically, a driver's license that says you're an American citizen. Why would anyone be against this, other than that it's probably another feel-good thing that won't really mean a hill of beans at the end of the day?

Don't have a problem with the National ID card thing. I mean I have so many dayum ID cards now it's pathetic, and one has a chip in it. Got three just for the military base. Big deal, but when they start talking about implanting a chip in my azz, they can forget it.

 

[Shutterbug]

Hmmm. I thought our SS cards were kind of like a national ID card already. :shrug: But what do I know.

 

[Steve]

Hmmm. I thought our SS cards were kind of like a national ID card already. :shrug: But what do I know.

You are absolutely correct! Everyone who currently has a SSN is a citizen of the U.S. and in "abroad" status from Washington DC. The SSA could easily update these basic identifiers with current information they already have on file about each of us, then issue new state-of-the-art cards, similar to the military ID.

Those who do not have SSNs (like illegals and State Sovereign Citizens) would not be issued the card. Makes weeding out the illegals very easy in my opinion. But as was mentioned earlier, even if put in place, I'm sure the program would be mismanaged, unequally applied throughout the U.S., and probably wouldn't change a darn thing.