What is Socialism?

MGKrebs

endangered species
So, SMC...

I am interested in Socialism, but I am having trouble finding a concise description of it. Is your sig line intended to be humorous, or can you tell me what your understanding of socialism is?

Actually, I can find concise definitions, but they are broad and general. For example:

Economic system which is based on cooperation rather than competition and which utilizes centralized planning and distribution.

What does this mean?
 

smcdem

New Member
To be specific i support democratic socialism. There was a GREAT site that I got all my info about it and other forms of the left, but it was taken down. It is different than China, NK and Cuba's form of socialism because there are political partys and free unbias elections. For now you can use www.sp-usa.org for all your research.
 

demsformd

New Member
Oh God fellas, socialism just does not work. Instead of having some people be wealthy, the vast majority middle of the road, and a small fraction being poor, under socialism, everyone is equal in the ditch.
 

demsformd

New Member
Oh dear god. Son you have a lot to learn. The Democratic Party sure as hell doesn't see things that way. Vote for Nader in two years.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by demsformd
Instead of having some people be wealthy, the vast majority middle of the road, and a small fraction being poor, under socialism, everyone is equal in the ditch.
Dems, let me rephrase you. Under Socialism, everyone is equal in the ditch....except the dictator that's running the country and a few of his selectmen.

SMC, you would have been the perfect person to live under a King during the Middle Ages. Let them eat cake! :cheesy:
 

smcdem

New Member
The basic def. of a non-militant democratic socialist state is that state has public ownership over all of its resources. I think that our capitalist way of living has become disgusting. The rich should not be riding on the backs of the poor.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by smcdem
The rich should not be riding on the backs of the poor.
Excuse me, sweetie, but that's exactly the other way around...the poor ride on the backs of the rich. What do the rich get out of the poor? Nothing. But the poor get their very existence out of the rich - after all, someone's got to pay taxes so the poor can pick up their welfare checks.

Anyway, I'll leave you all to your conversation about Socialism - Maynard is smart enough to reach his own conclusions.
 
H

Heretic

Guest
Thats interesting coming from someone that doesn't even have to attend public school.

For socialism to work most people (including you) have to be willing to give up most of what they have and live a borg like existance serving "the hive".

Read 1984 for God's Sake.
 

Frank

Chairman of the Board
Originally posted by Heretic
Thats interesting coming from someone that doesn't even have to attend public school.

For socialism to work most people (including you) have to be willing to give up most of what they have and live a borg like existance serving "the hive".

Read 1984 for God's Sake.

Exactly - one of the failings of Socialism in the real world is that it doesn't tolerate dissent very well. If the hive mind wants to do one thing, and a lone bee doesn't, it usually gets crushed "for the sake of the whole". Eventually, the hive's best interests become the same as whoever is running the hive. Oddly enough, many socialist countries become dictatorships. Imagine that.

It also presumes too much - for example - aside from the fact that mob mentality can very easily be controlled - it presumes that the will of the people is always a good thing. (This is actually the biggest problem with democracy as well, which is why the U.S. is actually a republic). If the will of the masses is to exterminate Jews or ethnically cleanse Muslims, it does it very well. If you DON'T want to extreminate Jews or ethnically cleanse Muslims, you probably ought to get the hell out of the hive - if it will let you.

In practice - socialism resembles a governmental form of a religious cult. If run benignly, it can be nice, but over time, ambitious people and fanatics usually take over.
 

Otter

Nothing to see here
Originally posted by smcdem
I think that our capitalist way of living has become disgusting.

And what vast pool of experience are you drawing your conclusions from??
 

sleuth

Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
Might I suggest some compelling fiction?

I challenge those who support any type of socialism to read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. I'm almost to the end of it now, and I've absolutely loved it, even though I thought it would be a snore.

I think it may be one of those life-changing books for me. Or at least one of those that really gave me a wake-up call. I challenge anyone who supports socialism, is a liberal or democrat, or believes in self-sacrifice as a virtue to read this and not take a serious look at their positions.
 
Last edited:

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by bluto
"You're a Marxist? ME, TOO!"
You know, when I was in 7th grade a bunch of girlfriends and I drew swastikas on the back of our hands and proclaimed ourselves the Nazis. It was just something stupid we did, not really thinking about the meaning of it.

Our history teacher, Mr. Musil, saw this and didn't yell at us, but used the opportunity to give us a lesson on the Holocaust. Then he said, "Still want to flaunt those swastikas?" My friends and I excused ourselves and went in the bathroom to scrub our hands.

When I see people proudly claiming to be Communists or Socialist or Marxists or rioting at some anti-war rally, I think about my stupid 7th grade self with that swastika drawn on my hand. It's embarrassing to be that stupid.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
I think it's ironic that 1984, an excellent novel about the horrors of totalitarianism, was written by a self-proclaimed socialist who thought he was attacking communism.

Two of the worst totalitarian regimes of the 20th century, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, both had "Socialist" in their titles. But the Nazis weren't really socialist. If they were, they would have seized control of Germany's corporations.

And in the end, it didn't matter. Do you think the poor souls in the concentration camps and gulags really gave a damn about ideology?
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
From what I've figured out so far,

I think most of you are confusing Socialism with Communism. I don't think Socialism necessarily means everybody is equal in economic status or potential. It seems to me to just mean a certain level of government control over the economy.

Perhaps in pure Socialism the government would own everything, but at various times in recent history, both Italy and France have been "Socialist", or at least led by socialists. I think one could make the case that the USA is at least to some extent socialist. After all, in a "pure" capitalist" system, there would be NO controls over business or government intervention in the economy, right?
 

demsformd

New Member
America is not a capitalist society. Yes we are a free enterprise system and yes our system is much more capitalist than socialist but what makes this nation's ideology so great is that we function under a mixed economy. Our system works and will continue to work. Socialism just makes everyone miserable and below average. It promotes ignorance and adherence to whatever the ruling oligarchy has to dictates. smcdem, socialism is not the answer to America's problems. We need reform, not all out chaotic revolution.
 
H

Heretic

Guest
I find it interesting that SMDDEM thinks a system that is so great that no country on earth falls under its definition.
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
That's what I'm sayin'!

I think many countries ARE to some degree socialist, we just don't admit it because it's still too closely associated with communism and therefore is a bad word.

We already tax upper incomes more than lower incomes. And we already support the lowest incomes. We already break up monopolies. We already regulate many (if not almost all) industries.

Less pollution is good for us.
Entrepreneurs are good and shouldn't always be crushed by giant corporations.
Leaving essential functions like fire, water, electricity, and schools to the whims of market forces is dangerous.
Some industries like airlines, mining, nuclear power, and logging, should not be totally dependant on maximizing profit.
 
Top