ferdberfel
Member
How? Please explain. Do you worry about the cops, the government coming in and taking you away to a gulag in Utah? Are you worried about being forced into worshiping a pagan god? Why do you need guns to protect your rights?
A school shooting every 60 hours. (And other BS stats)
- Thread starter glhs837
- Start date
How? Please explain. Do you worry about the cops, the government coming in and taking you away to a gulag in Utah? Are you worried about being forced into worshiping a pagan god? Why do you need guns to protect your rights?
i liked the first version better!
Toxick
Splat
ferdberfel
Member
It's in the constitution. It's my God-given right.
And I don't want to have soldiers quartered in my home either, it is in the constitution. Nothing time worn about that.....
Oh, and leave your god out of this.TYVM
And I don't want to have soldiers quartered in my home either, it is in the constitution. Nothing time worn about that.....
Oh, and leave your god out of this.TYVM
Toxick
Splat
Do you believe it should be removed from the Constitution then?
1 - That's a figure of speech.
2 - Freedom of Religion and Speech is also protected by the Constitution - so I believe I'll continue exactly as I please.
Hey - don't mention it.
glhs837
Power with Control
SO, in the cold reality of everyday life? While the odds are low that I might encounter someone seeking to injure me or mine, those odds are not nil. The odds that someone crosses the centerline of the highway and comes at me are pretty low also. but not nil. Do I carry? Nope. Would I if it were less hassle than it is in MD? Depends bsed on percieved threat levels. When I took the motorcycle to Philly a few months back, yep. Going to Ridge, maybe, maybe not.
But here's the thing. Rights are NOT subject to need. I dont need to speak freely. I dont need the right to peacably assemble. What I need is for the govt to NEVER take away my rights to do all of these things.
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glhs837
Power with Control
Becuase when govts do take freedoms, they use guns to do so. Am I worried about this happening? Nope, I dont spend much time at all worrying about that. And a lot of that lack of worry are due to those three hundred million guns the govt doesnt own.
ferdberfel
Member
Just pointing out that the constitution is not a perfect document.
A constitutional right is not one granted by a supernatural deity.
Just curious as to the logic of why you feel this is such an important right in today's society, nobody has even attempted a logical answer, most cite the old document, or say we will fall into anarchy and dictatorship. Funny how that hasn't happened anywhere else in the world.
As for your god... he who made kittens put snakes in the grass.
ferdberfel
Member
While I do not think I am naive, I do not share your fear for leaving my home. I don't think I need to take a gun to go to Philly, I do not think I need a gun to protect myself from the government.
Guess I'm wrong because in 60 years I have never EVER felt that I would be safer if I was packing.
Guess I'm wrong because in 60 years I have never EVER felt that I would be safer if I was packing.
glhs837
Power with Control
Nope, thats why the Founders put in a mechanism to amend it, should society feel the need. Pretty smart guys, understanding there would be things they couldn't begin to imagine and making sure that future generations had a way to shape the document. So, not being a religious person, I might agree with you that God didnt imbue his creations with certain inalienable rights. Which has no bearing on whether Man recognizes that we are all better off if we act as if that all humans have them.
Logically, the case can be made that the fact that those weapons exist has been a strong reason that we have not. Want a list of countries that either fell into anarchy, or became distatorships or fell victim to dictatorships since 1776? Some appear on the list mulitple times
And quiter a few are now free nations due to the fact that America was there and not one of the above? That seems like a logical argument to me. Or do you mean that no other nation has fallen vto these conditions since the last time this nation put a stop to that crap? Methinks you want to craft the case in the terms most favorable to your argument. I think that history is long and it's never unwise to think the last 40-50 years is the only place to look for answers.
You obviously don't understand the intent and purpose of the Constitution. It does NOT "grant" rights in the amendments like the Second. It simply confirms them - most of them considered "natural rights" - and limits the government's power to take them away.
glhs837
Power with Control
See, you confuse caution with fear, anyone who knows me knows I dont walk around in a state of fear. I dont fear traffic, or deer or ice when I ride my motorcyle. I dont fear to leave my house. I go where I will and use approriate caution. I have never needed a gun in over 50 years. Doesn't mean I wont tomorrow and wish I had one. Life comes at you fast sometimes. And when you do need one, it will be too late to go get one. You might not ever. No telling.
ferdberfel
Member
Nope, thats why the Founders put in a mechanism to amend it, should society feel the need. Pretty smart guys, understanding there would be things they couldn't begin to imagine and making sure that future generations had a way to shape the document. So, not being a religious person, I might agree with you that God didnt imbue his creations with certain inalienable rights. Which has no bearing on whether Man recognizes that we are all better off if we act as if that all humans have them.
Logically, the case can be made that the fact that those weapons exist has been a strong reason that we have not. Want a list of countries that either fell into anarchy, or became distatorships or fell victim to dictatorships since 1776? Some appear on the list mulitple times
Methinks you want to craft the case in the terms most favorable to your argument. I think that history is long and it's never unwise to think the last 40-50 years is the only place to look for answers.
Well, of course Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Nicaragua, Bosnia, Rwanda, and others would disagree with you about the US of A being the savior of the free world. All the rest is pretty ancient history.
Those military conflicts have what, exactly, to do with our right to own firearms??
Toxick
Splat
Perfect or not, it is the Law of the Land, regardless if ferdberfel, in his sophisticated wisdom superceding the likes of Jefferson and Franklin, thinks its antiquated and/or irrelevant.
Luckily there are avenues to change it. Simply disregarding it because you don't like it, unfortunately, is not an option.
Again, the way the law of the land is framed, it is.
Or if you prefer, they are rights that everyone has by virtue of birth.
The point is - The Bill of Rights is not an enumeration of rights granted to me by a magnanimous government - they are rights that I naturally have, and which the government may not infringe upon.
Much as you think they may.
It hasn't? Really?
Think about what you just said.
REALLY think about it.
I have zero interest in getting into a theological discussion with you. Your mind is clearly made up on the subject, as is mine.
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ferdberfel
Member
A lot of constitutional blather aside, nobody has really come up with a valid reason for owning a gun other than out of precaution. I would argue that in modern society gun ownership is the opposite of living cautiously, it is bourn out of a belief (real or imagined) that there exists a clear and present danger in everyday life and an individual needs to gird themselves with arms against this ever present danger.
I tend to believe that most people are too dam busy with their lives to be plotting my demise and sensible actions and avoiding danger are a better defense than arming myself and being in attack mode.
I tend to believe that most people are too dam busy with their lives to be plotting my demise and sensible actions and avoiding danger are a better defense than arming myself and being in attack mode.
glhs837
Power with Control
Yep, that was my Dad and millions of others, ancient history
Millions of South Koreans alive today might disgree with your cahracterization. Millions of Vietnamese are not alive today becuase we gave up when we should not have. Prompted, I might add, by people who swore that if we just stopped attacking the peaceful peoples of North Vietnam, all would be well. And it was, after the purges and political camps killed everyone who disagreed with them. We are at our worst when we give in to that politcal calcualtion that leads to stepping abck and letting the UN decide how to do things. Perfect? Of course not. But add the ones dead versus the ones alive and I maintian that the US has been a much larger force for good in the world than bad. But, the original point of this thread was that the anti-gun crowd basically makes up statsm and the awesome media machine just swqallows them and regurgitates them as factual instead of doing, I dont know. like journalism and stuff and present the dat in factual terms. There has not been a school shooting every 60 hours, and anyone who repeats that statistic is lazy or incompetent.