Abortions Up Until Birth

[GURPS]

Maine may soon allow elective abortions up until birth, pending final approval from the state’s governor.

The bill — H.P. 1044, An Act to Improve Maine’s Reproductive Privacy Laws — would allow a woman to receive a late-term abortion at any point if it is determined to be “necessary” by a doctor.

It’s likely the legislation will be codified. Maine Governor Janet Mills, a Democrat, introduced the bill in January alongside legislative leadership, both also Democrats: House Speaker Rachel Talbot Ross and Senate President Troy Jackson. At the time, Mills credited the case of Maine woman Dana Peirce as justification for the expanded legalization of abortion.


[clip]


During the final House vote on the bill, Republican State Rep. Tracy Quint argued that the bill would allow for abortions to take place without any valid reason.

“This bill allows babies at this age group of viability to be killed[,] at any time, for any reason, truly, for no reason at all,” said Quint. “Please allow our most vulnerable ones the chance of survival.”

Democratic State Rep. Bruce White broke ranks and voted against the bill, comparing the legislation to the historical persecution of classes of individuals that faced dehumanization and genocide for their differences.

“To me, this isn’t about winning the next election; it’s about upholding the dignity and rights of the human person,” said White. “The vagueness [of this bill] puts at risk the lives of late-term, healthy, preborn children.”

Republican State Reps. Lucas Lanigan and David Boyer, both pro-choice, said that even they found the bill to be too extreme.

The bill is the latest in the state’s efforts to increase abortion accessibility.

Maine Governor Poised to Sign Bill Allowing Elective Abortions Up Until Birth

Maine may soon allow elective abortions up until birth, pending final approval from the state’s governor. The bill — H.P. 1044, An Act to Improve Maine’s Reproductive Privacy Laws — would allow a woman to receive a late-term abortion at any point if it is determined to be “necessary” by a...

www.dailywire.com

@StmarysCity79


hey you stupid Bint, keep LYING ........

Democrats trot out a woman's tragic story, but then NO restrictions are put in place

 

[GURPS]

Drafted by the Ohio chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and backed by the Ohio Physicians for Reproductive Rights (OPRR) advocacy arm Protect Choice Ohio (PCO), the proposed Right to Reproductive Freedom with Protections for Health and Safety Amendment posits a “right” to make “personal reproductive” decisions, “including but not limited to decisions on contraception, fertility treatment, continuing one’s own pregnancy, miscarriage care, and abortion,” which the state “shall not, directly or indirectly, burden, penalize, prohibit, interfere with, or discriminate against.”

Fox News reported that the 400,000 signatures collected by supporters are now being reviewed by the state for any technical errors, after which the issue will be put to the voters this fall.

“This amendment is too extreme for Ohio,” warned Logan Church, director of CatholicVote Ohio. “As part of its unrelenting attack on parents, the ACLU’s proposed amendment seeks to cut parents out of their child’s most important and life-altering health decisions – including abortions and sex change operations. On top of that, the amendment would nullify existing and future health and safety protection for women and permit abortions in Ohio through all nine months of pregnancy, well after the point at which the unborn child can feel pain.”

Ohio's radical abortion amendment submits enough signatures to reach November ballot - LifeSite

The proposed amendment also poses a formidable threat to parental rights.

www.lifesitenews.com

 

[vraiblonde]

But this is how it's supposed to work - states set their own legislation, and if the voters don't like it they throw the bum out.

Democrats keening about this are just showing their ignorance. They gobble up the bullshit their media overlords feed them, then they puke it back up in the form of protest signs and social media memes.

Just like "banning books in Florida" - no books have been banned in Florida, not at all, not a single one. Yet Democrat ignorati are throwing themselves on the floor because kindergartners don't have graphic sex books available in their school libraries. "WAAAAAHHHH! Book banning!!!"

****ing morons.

I'm a big fan of keeping government close so we can control it rather than it being this enormous untouchable unaccountable behemoth.

 

[Hijinx]

Well let me just make an alternative solution to this abortion racket.
Late term abortion is because the mother does not want to raise a child.
She doesn't want to change diapers, she doesn't want the expense, she doesn't want to be responsible for the care and raising of the child.
Whatever the reason she is pregnant with a perfectly healthy normal 7--8--9 month old infant and doesn't want it so she kills it.
We can speak of her reasons and some of them may be pertinent to her lifestyle or situation.

There are agencies that will take this child and see to it that it is placed with people who do want it.
Instead of killing it let it be born and the mother never hears from it again. Never. Never.

It worked in the past, and then they started letting mothers go back and find the children and cause problems with the adoptive parents.
Go back to the old way of doing it and save these children. Instead of doing what works they now just kill it.

 

[black dog]

Well let me just make an alternative solution to this abortion racket.
Late term abortion is because the mother does not want to raise a child.
She doesn't want to change diapers, she doesn't want the expense, she doesn't want to be responsible for the care and raising of the child.
Whatever the reason she is pregnant with a perfectly healthy normal 7--8--9 month old infant and doesn't want it so she kills it.
We can speak of her reasons and some of them may be pertinent to her lifestyle or situation.

There are agencies that will take this child and see to it that it is placed with people who do want it.
Instead of killing it let it be born and the mother never hears from it again. Never. Never.

It worked in the past, and then they started letting mothers go back and find the children and cause problems with the adoptive parents.
Go back to the old way of doing it and save these children. Instead of doing what works they now just kill it.

How many infants have you Fostered?
Out here in True Conservative Land, we don't have anywhere close to enough households right now that are willing to Foster, And you believe that States can accept thousands more infants each year?
Put down those weed brownies old man...

Better bring back those Orphanages each County across America we used to have.

 

[vraiblonde]

How many infants have you Fostered?
Out here in True Conservative Land, we don't have anywhere close to enough households right now that are willing to Foster, And you believe that States can accept thousands more infants each year?
Put down those weed brownies old man...

Better bring back those Orphanages each County across America we used to have.

Well, you're wrong. People adopt from foreign countries all the time because adopting an infant in the US is legally cumbersome and the supply is low.

There are a number of problems with our foster/adoption system in this country, but it's not for lack of willing homes.

The simpler solution would be for people to be more sexually responsible, but that's asking for a miracle. And don't start ranting about rape and whatever because the VAST majority of abortions are of convenience, not because of a criminal act. The *very* least they could do is have their convenience abortion early and not wait until the kid is knocking at the cervix. THAT is what people like me have a problem with, these full term abortions where the child is fully formed and some ghoulish Mengele jams a pair of scissors in its head to kill it (but keeps the organs viable to sell).

 

[Bare-ya-cuda]

But this is how it's supposed to work - states set their own legislation, and if the voters don't like it they throw the bum out.

Democrats keening about this are just showing their ignorance. They gobble up the bullshit their media overlords feed them, then they puke it back up in the form of protest signs and social media memes.

Just like "banning books in Florida" - no books have been banned in Florida, not at all, not a single one. Yet Democrat ignorati are throwing themselves on the floor because kindergartners don't have graphic sex books available in their school libraries. "WAAAAAHHHH! Book banning!!!"

****ing morons.

I'm a big fan of keeping government close so we can control it rather than it being this enormous untouchable unaccountable behemoth.

We have already reached the untouchable unaccountable threshold in our government.

 

[SamSpade]

Well, you're wrong. People adopt from foreign countries all the time because adopting an infant in the US is legally cumbersome and the supply is low.

There are a number of problems with our foster/adoption system in this country, but it's not for lack of willing homes.

Raising hand. Yup. That is one of the biggest reason we went abroad - because the supply is low - and the laws suck. My wife worked with a man whose children were "reclaimed" by the birth mother - after five years. They were taken from the only home they knew, because the law in Maryland said she had the right to take them back.

Most infant adoptions occur while the birth mother is still pregnant - and she chooses the parents. Depending on the state laws, she may have permanent visitation rights. So after you've depleted all your money for a home study and all the paper work - the birth mother might be a permanent part of their children's lives, while you raise them. OPEN adoption.

Nope. Not for me.

FOSTER is different, and not all foster children are available to adopt. Foster kids HAVE parents; for any number of reasons the parents cannot care for them. I had two foster brothers growing up; one was with us a short time and returned to his family - the other, his family - he had parents and brothers and sisters - they would not allow my parents to adopt him, because we were moving out of the county. He never returned to his family - and he was never adopted. The good news is - through the magic of the Internet, we found him again, and he is a part of all of our lives.

There really aren't enough kids for couples to adopt, which is why the birth parent has the ability to "pick" the parents.

With ONE exception - kids with extreme medical needs, special needs - and kids of minorities, specifically African Americans, especially if the families want their children raised by African Americans. Not enough black couples are adopting black children.

 

[SamSpade]

Referring to the OP - THIS is why we can't resolve the abortion issue in this country - abortion foes want to erase it completely insisting on life at the moment of conception; abortion proponents want to be able to abort all the way up until BIRTH, and even a short time AFTERWARD, citing a fetus is not a "person" until it leaves the hospital. Two unresolvable extremes.

In Europe - they've largely - settled it. It's not allowed except rape, incest, life or health of mother after a certain time and rarely if at all for no reason at all. Those restrictions kick in anywhere from 15-22 weeks. Prior to that, ok - after - pretty much zero. Why any women would wait six months into a pregnancy before deciding what to do is absurd.

I think somewhere between is a reasonable area to work with. The heartbeat law places it so early, some women still don't even know they're pregnant; the abortion any time is too barbaric - yet these are the extremes the political parties have chosen to die on. All or nothing. THAT is why we have a problem.

 

[black dog]

Well, you're wrong. People adopt from foreign countries all the time because adopting an infant in the US is legally cumbersome and the supply is low.

There are a number of problems with our foster/adoption system in this country, but it's not for lack of willing homes.

If you were a few years older, you would remember the pre say, 1973 and the next 5 yrs or so after that days. But your not.
Like you posted, adoption is to time consuming and expensive in the US, along with theirs never enough people that want to adopt here.
Its cheaper and faster to go overseas.
Eliminate abortion and quickly the very thing you believe will be massively overloaded and again we will have huge surpluses of infants to take care of. I went to JH and HS with many kids that grew up since infants in the system and when no one wanted them as infants they ended up in The Baptist Home For Children in Bethesda, MD.
You've traveled the USA, now travel the rest of the world and you will quickly see what I am posting here. Look no farther than the countries that have abortion bans, the street urchins and orphanages are overloaded and no one wants to pay for them.

Here, I'll start with Haiti, its close 700 miles to Key West. Haiti has 11.5 million people, Haiti has 1,2 million orphans.
Hundreds of new borns are dumped in Portia Prince each week.
So about 10% of Haiti's population are orphans. All abortions are illegal in Haiti.

Edit,
I would also suggest you read about Americas own Orphan Trains from 100 yrs ago. Those that weren't picked at the end of the train lines , you guessed it, they went to orphanages.

 

[SamSpade]

Its cheaper and faster to go overseas.

From someone who adopted three times overseas - that is precisely the opposite. In fact, domestic adoption in some cases, with tax credits, in this country can be damned close to FREE. Foster to adopt and adopting through some domestic charities is very fast.

And it is unquestionably not faster overseas - non special needs China adoptions could take 6 or more years. (They pretty much only do special needs now).

Our first adoption took almost two years; second, two years - last one, three years. I KNOW people who have adopted domestically where the adoption was final almost the moment the home study was completed and a referral accepted.

 

[black dog]

From someone who adopted three times overseas - that is precisely the opposite. In fact, domestic adoption in some cases, with tax credits, in this country can be damned close to FREE. Foster to adopt and adopting through some domestic charities is very fast.

And it is unquestionably not faster overseas - non special needs China adoptions could take 6 or more years. (They pretty much only do special needs now).

Our first adoption took almost two years; second, two years - last one, three years. I KNOW people who have adopted domestically where the adoption was final almost the moment the home study was completed and a referral accepted.

Then I would ask you, why didnt you adopt an American child?

 

[RoseRed]

Then I would ask you, why didnt you adopt an American child?

I think he addressed that in post 8.

 

[SamSpade]

Then I would ask you, why didnt you adopt an American child?

Many reasons - the primary reason for going overseas is - it's final. No laws allowing birth mom to come back and say, changed my mind, and all the work, money and everything you put into the child is undone, because your state says, sorry, she takes priority. We personally knew TWO couples this happened to.

The records are secure. We did ask the Russian court to leave his records unsealed, because we thought he should have that option.

There were other reasons but basically, to adopt in the United States, you have two options - mostly. Adopt an infant before it is born, or adopt a child removed from their home at an older age. These children are usually traumatized. I know of a few adoptions that were disrupted because the adopting couple was never informed that the children were brutally sexually abused. There are a few other options, but that's mostly how it goes. You can adopt through fostering, but there's no guarantees.

We were older, and we weren't prepared for handling a newborn - which pretty much left most domestic adoptions out for us, since we did not want our first children to be children removed from homes - which depending on laws - be taken.

The other reason with newborns and babies is, since the demand in the United States is SO VERY HIGH - not only does the birth mother choose the parents - but in many states, they have permanent visitation rights. We didn't want that - we wanted our children to be our children. We didn't want Mom to drop in on the weekends.

It is not at all cheaper - all tolled, the total for for the adoptions exceeded 100k, spread out over 10 years. It did mean, emptying retirement accounts, refinancing the house, and more paperwork than you can imagine. And the process is so slow, that some things had to be done repeatedly. For example, with USCIS, some of the stuff is only good for six months - so you have to re-schedule and start over. Some stuff can't just be notarized, it has to be apostilled - which means visits to Annapolis. I have probably a stack of documents eight feet high for the stuff we did.

I don't know if outlawing abortion would lead to an upsurge of unwanted kids that would overwhelm our system. I know in some foreign nations - like Russia and China - they pretty much allow it at any time, yet they have orphans or the equivalent of foster kids in the millions. We met a girl in China whose parents abandoned HER when she was eight years old - because they had a boy, and were only allowed one child. In Russia, many of the "orphans" have parents who live in town - they just can't afford them but are not eligible for adoption.

 

[vraiblonde]

Many reasons - the primary reason for going overseas is - it's final. No laws allowing birth mom to come back and say, changed my mind, and all the work, money and everything you put into the child is undone, because your state says, sorry, she takes priority. We personally knew TWO couples this happened to.

It happened to one of my girlfriends. She and her husband had the child for almost two years, pending legal adoption, and the "mom" decided she wanted the little girl after all. My friend and her husband were the only parents this child had ever known, and they just came and took her and gave her to a stranger. It was awful.

They ended up adopting overseas, spent a fortune, and their now adult daughter is an absolute treasure because they're great parents. And that first little girl...who knows what happened to her being raised by a crack whore.

Another friend of mine fosters older children who come with all kinds of problems, and don't you know that once the kid is on the right path, going to school and getting good grades, the "mom" decides to swoop in and take them back. It's never the dad because there's never a dad in the picture.

Putting heartless sociopathic bureaucrats in charge of children is an enormous mistake, but here we are. "Oh, these people love and want this child...let's rip it out of their arms and give it to a mentally unstable drug addict instead." It's infuriating.

 

[Hijinx]

Many reasons - the primary reason for going overseas is - it's final. No laws allowing birth mom to come back and say, changed my mind, and all the work, money and everything you put into the child is undone, because your state says, sorry, she takes priority. We personally knew TWO couples this happened to.

The records are secure. We did ask the Russian court to leave his records unsealed, because we thought he should have that option.

There were other reasons but basically, to adopt in the United States, you have two options - mostly. Adopt an infant before it is born, or adopt a child removed from their home at an older age. These children are usually traumatized. I know of a few adoptions that were disrupted because the adopting couple was never informed that the children were brutally sexually abused. There are a few other options, but that's mostly how it goes. You can adopt through fostering, but there's no guarantees.

We were older, and we weren't prepared for handling a newborn - which pretty much left most domestic adoptions out for us, since we did not want our first children to be children removed from homes - which depending on laws - be taken.

The other reason with newborns and babies is, since the demand in the United States is SO VERY HIGH - not only does the birth mother choose the parents - but in many states, they have permanent visitation rights. We didn't want that - we wanted our children to be our children. We didn't want Mom to drop in on the weekends.

It is not at all cheaper - all tolled, the total for for the adoptions exceeded 100k, spread out over 10 years. It did mean, emptying retirement accounts, refinancing the house, and more paperwork than you can imagine. And the process is so slow, that some things had to be done repeatedly. For example, with USCIS, some of the stuff is only good for six months - so you have to re-schedule and start over. Some stuff can't just be notarized, it has to be apostilled - which means visits to Annapolis. I have probably a stack of documents eight feet high for the stuff we did.

I don't know if outlawing abortion would lead to an upsurge of unwanted kids that would overwhelm our system. I know in some foreign nations - like Russia and China - they pretty much allow it at any time, yet they have orphans or the equivalent of foster kids in the millions. We met a girl in China whose parents abandoned HER when she was eight years old - because they had a boy, and were only allowed one child. In Russia, many of the "orphans" have parents who live in town - they just can't afford them but are not eligible for adoption.

We need to go back to the old ways of adoption.
Where the child belongs to the adoptive parents, the mother does not know where the child is the child does not know the mother.
And the law protects the adoptive parents.

 

[SamSpade]

We need to go back to the old ways of adoption.
Where the child belongs to the adoptive parents, the mother does not know where the child is the child does not know the mother.
And the law protects the adoptive parents.

I am not sure I am in favor of that, insomuch as in the old days, records were sealed and NO ONE could get access to them.
My father was adopted, his records were sealed and the orphanage is no more. I've tried using DNA apps to find matches but having very little luck.

SOME states, adoptions are final, and while birth parents aren't locked out, they have no names but get reports on how their child is doing, if they so desire. Most foreign countries require this as well, for different lengths of time.

One of the reasons for "open adoptions" - where birth mothers are part of the child's life - are mostly because demand is HIGH and birth mothers hold all the cards. Because they are providing something in high demand - they get to make the rules.

 

[black dog]

Many reasons - the primary reason for going overseas is - it's final. No laws allowing birth mom to come back and say, changed my mind, and all the work, money and everything you put into the child is undone, because your state says, sorry, she takes priority. We personally knew TWO couples this happened to.

The records are secure. We did ask the Russian court to leave his records unsealed, because we thought he should have that option.

There were other reasons but basically, to adopt in the United States, you have two options - mostly. Adopt an infant before it is born, or adopt a child removed from their home at an older age. These children are usually traumatized. I know of a few adoptions that were disrupted because the adopting couple was never informed that the children were brutally sexually abused. There are a few other options, but that's mostly how it goes. You can adopt through fostering, but there's no guarantees.

We were older, and we weren't prepared for handling a newborn - which pretty much left most domestic adoptions out for us, since we did not want our first children to be children removed from homes - which depending on laws - be taken.

The other reason with newborns and babies is, since the demand in the United States is SO VERY HIGH - not only does the birth mother choose the parents - but in many states, they have permanent visitation rights. We didn't want that - we wanted our children to be our children. We didn't want Mom to drop in on the weekends.

It is not at all cheaper - all tolled, the total for for the adoptions exceeded 100k, spread out over 10 years. It did mean, emptying retirement accounts, refinancing the house, and more paperwork than you can imagine. And the process is so slow, that some things had to be done repeatedly. For example, with USCIS, some of the stuff is only good for six months - so you have to re-schedule and start over. Some stuff can't just be notarized, it has to be apostilled - which means visits to Annapolis. I have probably a stack of documents eight feet high for the stuff we did.

I don't know if outlawing abortion would lead to an upsurge of unwanted kids that would overwhelm our system. I know in some foreign nations - like Russia and China - they pretty much allow it at any time, yet they have orphans or the equivalent of foster kids in the millions. We met a girl in China whose parents abandoned HER when she was eight years old - because they had a boy, and were only allowed one child. In Russia, many of the "orphans" have parents who live in town - they just can't afford them but are not eligible for adoption.

Thank you for your response, and I Thank both of you for bringing children into your home.

Im not sure one can adopt any infant or child that hasn't been traumatized in one way or another.
Every kid that I went to school with that lived in that had been placed in dozens of Foster homes, other institutions before the Baptist Home, had big issues.
Yes abortion is legal in China and is elective the first 12 weeks in Russia.
Mark my words, when the Conservative Party is done outlawing abortion in at least half of America, we will shortly be back to an over whelming amount of orphans.