About those Canadian milk tariffs

transporter

Active Member
As the trade minister, Chrystia Freeland, has pointed out, trade data flatly contradicts the claim that Canadian supply management is ravaging US dairyland – either because it unfairly restricts imports or because it dumps a subsidized surplus in US markets. In 2016, Canada imported dairy products from the US worth five times more than the small amount it exported there. “I would call that a pretty good deal,” she told the House of Commons.

Canadian farmers point out that despite the tariffs that protect them, imports make up 10% of the country’s dairy consumption. By contrast, the US restricts dairy imports to 3% of domestic consumption. “That just screams hypocrisy to me,” Muirhead said. “I don’t understand how they can get away with these positions.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2018/jun/09/milk-canada-us-trade-war

Trump is a buffoon...

BTW...while Trump spent his time attacking our allies before and after the G7 meeting....while he showed up late and left early...while he did everything he could to torpedo the event...the Chinese were holding a highly productive trade meeting of their own.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-sco/chinas-xi-calls-out-selfish-short-sighted-trade-policies-idUSKCN1J6047

So again the US, thanks to our childish and incompetent President, shrink from our role as a world leader...and China is laughing all the way to the bank.

Oh...one more point...can anybody explain why not standing for the national anthem is an issue of such importance that this President must insert himself and belittle those players...while the same President (in full carnival barker mentality) wants to pardon a boxer who refused to enter military service under the draft? This ignores, of course, the stupidity displayed by the President because of Ali's conviction being overturned...the point is Trump rails against those who won't stand for the anthem but wants to reward someone who wouldn't stand a post???
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Oh...one more point...can anybody explain why not standing for the national anthem is an issue of such importance that this President must insert himself and belittle those players...while the same President (in full carnival barker mentality) wants to pardon a boxer who refused to enter military service under the draft?
Do you actually plan to respond?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Ok, maybe I'm not quite getting it ....

REGIONALLY, some of the dairy market affects the U.S. - otherwise, you wouldn't find Chuck Schumer actually *agreeing* with Trump --

Per the same article --

[FONT=&quot]Representing a state suffering especially hard from farm failures and suicides, the US Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, recently echoed his Republican president in blaming Canada for the debacle. “Canada, when it comes to dairy, acts like China when it comes to trade,” Schumer told hard-pressed farmers in upstate New York. “They’re unfair. They put up barriers. They treat us bad.”

[/FONT]
So - let me understand this - in Canada, production is managed carefully by the government to stop overproduction, so that milk prices remain high.
So the Canadian dairy farmers like that. Apparently they have enough - or mostly enough - dairy production to satisfy the consumer demand. Since prices are high, yep, demand is maintained a little low. To keep them afloat, they run a huge tariff on American dairy - otherwise, MUCH cheaper American dairy would knock over their apple cart. They also restrict dairy - for the same reason - because since they can't manage the production of foreign dairy.

Basically - the Canadian government pays the farmers a subsidy.

I found this link more useful --

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/a-guide-to-understanding-the-dairy-dispute-between-the-us-andcanada/article34802291/
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Ok, maybe I'm not quite getting it ....

So - let me understand this - in Canada, production is managed carefully by the government to stop overproduction, so that milk prices remain high.
So the Canadian dairy farmers like that. Apparently they have enough - or mostly enough - dairy production to satisfy the consumer demand. Since prices are high, yep, demand is maintained a little low. To keep them afloat, they run a huge tariff on American dairy - otherwise, MUCH cheaper American dairy would knock over their apple cart. They also restrict dairy - for the same reason - because since they can't manage the production of foreign dairy.

Basically - the Canadian government pays the farmers a subsidy.

Before Trump left Canada, he told reporters what he had proposed — the full elimination of tariffs and subsidies and any barriers to free and open trade.

"You go tariff free, you go barrier free, you go subsidy free," he said. "I did suggest it and people I guess were going to go back to the drawing board."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31672/trumps-twitter-tirade-turns-tired-g-7-joseph-curl
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
From Tranny's post.
In 2016, Canada imported dairy products from the US worth five times more than the small amount it exported there. “
And they charged a 300% tariff on it. Money in their coffers. Of course they are happy.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Ok, maybe I'm not quite getting it ....

REGIONALLY, some of the dairy market affects the U.S. - otherwise, you wouldn't find Chuck Schumer actually *agreeing* with Trump --

Per the same article --

[FONT=&amp]Representing a state suffering especially hard from farm failures and suicides, the US Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, recently echoed his Republican president in blaming Canada for the debacle. “Canada, when it comes to dairy, acts like China when it comes to trade,” Schumer told hard-pressed farmers in upstate New York. “They’re unfair. They put up barriers. They treat us bad.”

[/FONT]
So - let me understand this - in Canada, production is managed carefully by the government to stop overproduction, so that milk prices remain high.
So the Canadian dairy farmers like that. Apparently they have enough - or mostly enough - dairy production to satisfy the consumer demand. Since prices are high, yep, demand is maintained a little low. To keep them afloat, they run a huge tariff on American dairy - otherwise, MUCH cheaper American dairy would knock over their apple cart. They also restrict dairy - for the same reason - because since they can't manage the production of foreign dairy.

Basically - the Canadian government pays the farmers a subsidy.

I found this link more useful --

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/a-guide-to-understanding-the-dairy-dispute-between-the-us-andcanada/article34802291/
So does the US, where do you think the term govt cheese came from?
 

nutz

Active Member
So does the US, where do you think the term govt cheese came from?
My family sold off everything dairy because we chose not to keep losing money. Wish I (we) would have known the gov't. was handing out money to help. :sarcasm:
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
So does the US, where do you think the term govt cheese came from?

So let me understand this -- really -- in Canada, they restrict the *supply* of milk, cheese, eggs and so forth - and
establish standard prices for them high enough to keep farmers happy. In addition, to keep that, they severely restrict the import of dairy.
In the United States, we have more or less a straight subsidy to dairy farms, allowing them to produce just as much as possible - but inevitably they're
going to produce too much, and Uncle Sam promises to buy it off (and basically, give it away). However, Uncle Same doesn't always buy it ALL,
so tons of food just flat out gets wasted - at taxpayer expense.

That's the nutshell version - I can't find a simple description of what actually goes to the dairy farmer - only that he benefits from programs like
loans, SNAP and indirect subsidies to corn and soy producers, and so forth. (I can't find anything that says that the government pays them directly).

Since OUR farmers are subsidized by the government to basically OVER produce - and Canada's government subsidizes them to UNDER produce -
we really don't need tariffs - but they do.

Ok - I get it -

But - that's not our fault. As far as I can tell, free trade is free trade. You want the right to sell X in OUR country, we want to sell X in yours;
tariffs are either gone or you don't trade X. I mean, think of it this way - you want to sell stuff in MY store, I want to sell stuff in YOUR store -
the fact that you manage YOUR inventory and production means you need to ramp up MY price isn't MY fault. We either have a deal or we don't.
 

Lurk

Happy Creepy Ass Cracka
So let me understand this -- really -- in Canada, they restrict the *supply* of milk, cheese, eggs and so forth - and
establish standard prices for them high enough to keep farmers happy. In addition, to keep that, they severely restrict the import of dairy.
In the United States, we have more or less a straight subsidy to dairy farms, allowing them to produce just as much as possible - but inevitably they're
going to produce too much, and Uncle Sam promises to buy it off (and basically, give it away). However, Uncle Same doesn't always buy it ALL,
so tons of food just flat out gets wasted - at taxpayer expense.

That's the nutshell version - I can't find a simple description of what actually goes to the dairy farmer - only that he benefits from programs like
loans, SNAP and indirect subsidies to corn and soy producers, and so forth. (I can't find anything that says that the government pays them directly).

Since OUR farmers are subsidized by the government to basically OVER produce - and Canada's government subsidizes them to UNDER produce -
we really don't need tariffs - but they do.

Ok - I get it -

But - that's not our fault. As far as I can tell, free trade is free trade. You want the right to sell X in OUR country, we want to sell X in yours;
tariffs are either gone or you don't trade X. I mean, think of it this way - you want to sell stuff in MY store, I want to sell stuff in YOUR store -
the fact that you manage YOUR inventory and production means you need to ramp up MY price isn't MY fault. We either have a deal or we don't.
Now, add the same contortions for livestock and crops and you see why the FARM BILL is a multi-year appropriation that nobody really wants to tackle when its term has expired.
 

Kyle

Imagine No Democrats
PREMO Member
Really wouldnt have thought Milk could be such an issue in Canada.

As girlie as they all seem, I'd have bet they all drank soy.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Really wouldnt have thought Milk could be such an issue in Canada.

As girlie as they all seem, I'd have bet they all drank soy.
I used to piss off a Canadian who would conjecture that I belonged there, that I wasn't cool
with the citizenship requirement of emasculation.

I don't think *MILK* and dairy is as big a deal; monetarily it's not, although it's really important to dairy
farmers in the region.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Now, add the same contortions for livestock and crops and you see why the FARM BILL is a multi-year appropriation that nobody really wants to tackle when its term has expired.
Subsidies in our country notwithstanding ..... I think if you want to do business here, you've got to allow entry of our products there.
They have nothing to complain about with regard to dairy, if THEIR tariffs pretty much keep us completely out.
I read somewhere that the only inroads we were making were with things like ultrafiltered milks that are used in other dairy products,
because until recently, they didn't fall under the tariffs.

I don't think I'd want to be in agribusiness - one drought, one tropical storm, one freak cold spell, one flood - and you're toast.
One unstoppable pest, one outbreak of fungus or disease - and your profits are gone.
I don't know of other businesses other than food where you are so susceptible to forces totally outside your control.

So I DO get why the government tries to protect them - the nation depends on the continuing labor of farmers, and that can't happen
if they go out of business because of a bad year.

I just think they do it in a way that guarantees waste.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
My family sold off everything dairy because we chose not to keep losing money. Wish I (we) would have known the gov't. was handing out money to help. :sarcasm:
Are you saying that the US doesn't provide it or that you didn't know how to access it?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Are you saying that the US doesn't provide it or that you didn't know how to access it?

I can't tell from what I read online that they're all available to anyone but the big agribusinesses.
I don't think Mom and Pop farms get much if anything.
 

nutz

Active Member
I can't tell from what I read online that they're all available to anyone but the big agribusinesses.
I don't think Mom and Pop farms get much if anything.
Very little in the way of grants and real assistance. Most of what they throw out are gov't. backed, low interest loans. But if things are already going bad, they usually aren't going to save the farm.
Where is your local dairy plant?
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I can't tell from what I read online that they're all available to anyone but the big agribusinesses.
I don't think Mom and Pop farms get much if anything.
Maybe that's why there aren't many Mom and Pop farms left.
Here in St. Marys the money crop was taken away with the tobacco buyout and most Mom and Pop farms rent the land to the big guys.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Very little in the way of grants and real assistance. Most of what they throw out are gov't. backed, low interest loans. But if things are already going bad, they usually aren't going to save the farm.
Where is your local dairy plant?
I don't know. I've guessed that milk is one of the commodities that, unlike oil, really only has a limited range of distribution.
That the bulk of your business needs to be nearby. I have no idea, I just know it's true of some produce, like strawberries.
Spoils too quickly.

I've been reading articles regarding trade balance - and there's a lot of folks out there that say - it never matters.
Others who say that continued long deficits are basically a money siphon. I have no idea - I'm not an economist,
although I used to work for one. I was listening to Mark Levin on the radio home yesterday, and he thinks trade
deficits are irrelevant - he said that a tariff on foreign goods is basically a tax on your own people, so why should
we care if other nations place high tariffs on our goods? And I shouted at the radio, Mark, you're too smart to say
something so stupid - it's only a TAX if people BUY it. And high tariffs make foreign goods undesirable.
 

nutz

Active Member
I don't know. I've guessed that milk is one of the commodities that, unlike oil, really only has a limited range of distribution.
That the bulk of your business needs to be nearby. I have no idea, I just know it's true of some produce, like strawberries.
Spoils too quickly.

I've been reading articles regarding trade balance - and there's a lot of folks out there that say - it never matters.
Others who say that continued long deficits are basically a money siphon. I have no idea - I'm not an economist,
although I used to work for one. I was listening to Mark Levin on the radio home yesterday, and he thinks trade
deficits are irrelevant - he said that a tariff on foreign goods is basically a tax on your own people, so why should
we care if other nations place high tariffs on our goods? And I shouted at the radio, Mark, you're too smart to say
something so stupid - it's only a TAX if people BUY it. And high tariffs make foreign goods undesirable.
Not really anymore, they've got stuf with 3 month and more shelf lives so cold shipping isn't as big of a deal anymore. Has to make one wonder about freshness of the product though.
https://www.horizon.com/products/milk/whole-milk-0
http://www.supermarketnews.com/dairy/retailers-pressure-dairy-industry-new-plants
http://www.supermarketnews.com/dairy/dairy-alternatives-rise
 
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