Adam Ruins Guns

Yooper

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What were your thoughts? I have a few, but I think I'd like to hear yours first.

TIA.

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This_person

Well-Known Member
What were your thoughts? I have a few, but I think I'd like to hear yours first.

TIA.

--- End of line (MCP)
I haven't had the time to watch. Can you reduce the arguments to several sentences, or will it take the whole show to let me know the thoughts?
 

Yooper

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I haven't had the time to watch. Can you reduce the arguments to several sentences, or will it take the whole show to let me know the thoughts?
I was hoping to get Chris' thoughts first (given that (s)he (don't want to gender assume?) posted it). I'll wait a few more days and if nothing then I'll post some thoughts.

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Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
I was hoping to get Chris' thoughts first (given that (s)he (don't want to gender assume?) posted it). I'll wait a few more days and if nothing then I'll post some thoughts.

--- End of line (MCP)

While I appreciate you wanting my opinion first, you are more than welcome to post yours.
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
While I appreciate you wanting my opinion first, you are more than welcome to post yours.
:sigh:

I haven't had the time to watch. Can you reduce the arguments to several sentences, or will it take the whole show to let me know the thoughts?
Wasn't a fan. Mr. Conover used clever techniques to set the stage where he would be viewed as both a compassionate listener and compassionate advocate (for both sides). But he wasn't; he cited primarily (if not entirely) anti-gun entities as if they were "gospel" (they are not) to misrepresent the debate. There were several places where I laughed at his audacity; no wonder the Left wants kids to not study history! He used as proof that for most of the country's history SCOTUS didn't rule on private gun ownership vis-a-vis the "militia." Gee, I wonder why; perhaps b/c there was no need to rule? That everyone understood what gun rights meant? His take is so wrong on so many levels.

He brought in a dude from UC-Davis so that the dude could stress that we MUST make guns a public health issue.

UC-Davis, the NYT, quotes from a left-leaning SCOTUS associate..., gee, those are the folks who have no bias....

I could go on, not worth the effort. In summary, the smug mocking of pro-gun views was a real turn-off; the bias was cleverly concealed but quite palpable.

That this show/his show is on TRU TV is both laughable and Orwellian.

#ChangeMyMind

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This_person

Well-Known Member
:sigh:


Wasn't a fan. Mr. Conover used clever techniques to set the stage where he would be viewed as both a compassionate listener and compassionate advocate (for both sides). But he wasn't; he cited primarily (if not entirely) anti-gun entities as if they were "gospel" (they are not) to misrepresent the debate. There were several places where I laughed at his audacity; no wonder the Left wants kids to not study history! He used as proof that for most of the country's history SCOTUS didn't rule on private gun ownership vis-a-vis the "militia." Gee, I wonder why; perhaps b/c there was no need to rule? That everyone understood what gun rights meant? His take is so wrong on so many levels.

He brought in a dude from UC-Davis so that the dude could stress that we MUST make guns a public health issue.

UC-Davis, the NYT, quotes from a left-leaning SCOTUS associate..., gee, those of the folks who have no bias....

I could go on, not worth the effort. In summary, the smug mocking of pro-gun views was a real turn-off; the bias was cleverly concealed but quite palpable.

That this show/his show is on TRU TV is both laughable and Orwellian.

#ChangeMyMind

--- End of line (MCP)
Thank you for the synopsis - keeps me from needing to watch it. Good discussion points.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
:sigh:


Wasn't a fan. Mr. Conover used clever techniques to set the stage where he would be viewed as both a compassionate listener and compassionate advocate (for both sides).

Well yeah. It's sneaky. And I do it too, in person. It disarms argumentative people if they think you're on their side.
The objective is to change their mind while thinking the change is entirely their own.

I don't buy the collective right versus the individual right. When the Constitution mentions rights of the people, it's always understood elsewhere to mean their own personal rights, and not somehow the rights of a state at large. Moreover, other state constitutions describe the right to arms as necessary to protect YOURSELF. And not buying the argument that a gun was at the time so precarious a thing that it was impractical for self-defense or pistols would be senseless for people to carry, from the rich to persons of authority to criminals, pirates or actual military. If you had a loaded gun, you win.
 
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Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Well yeah. It's sneaky. And I do it too, in person. It disarms argumentative people if they think you're on their side.
The objective is to change their mind while thinking the change is entirely their own.

I don't buy the collective right versus the individual right. When the Constitution mentions rights of the people, it's always understood elsewhere to mean their own personal rights, and not somehow the rights of a state at large. Moreover, other state constitutions describe the right to arms as necessary to protect YOURSELF. And not buying the argument that a gun was at the time so precarious a thing that it was impractical for self-defense or pistols would be senseless for people to carry, from the rich to persons of authority to criminals, pirates or actual military. If you had a loaded gun, you win.
Thanks for adding ('cause I wasn't going to spend one more minute writing up a more comprehensive post). But agree. 100%.

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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Thanks for adding ('cause I wasn't going to spend one more minute writing up a more comprehensive post). But agree. 100%.

--- End of line (MCP)

Until recently - I had no idea just how far back single-shot pistols went - or how long muskets and other guns had been in use by the time our Constitution was written - but in a similar form to what our forefathers used, they'd been in use for a few centuries. Not being much of a gun enthusiast, I just had no idea how extensively they were used for MANY generations prior to the Revolution - and a short time AFTER, whole military units would revolve around sharpshooters. They most definitely were not scary hot potatoes. Moreover as many as forty state constitutions have a statement protecting the right to bear arms, and many of them state as its purpose the right to defend yourself, your family and your property.

I know there's a LEGAL description of such rights but it is a basic right understood by the Framers as a right you have as a consequence of being BORN - that you have a right to believe what you want, say or write what you think, freely express and interact with others - and to defend yourself.
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
I know there's a LEGAL description of such rights but it is a basic right understood by the Framers as a right you have as a consequence of being BORN - that you have a right to believe what you want, say or write what you think, freely express and interact with others - and to defend yourself.
The term I've heard to describe these rights are "pre-political rights."

--- End of line (MCP)
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
My take:

In general, the skit does a good job pointing out the mostly-emotion-based arguments going around after one of these incidents. It does a good job mixing some humor in a topic that is all-to-often serious from both sides. I think humor is needed when this is going on national TV.

  1. Rifles do make up a small portion of gun deaths. Especially AR-15-type rifles which make up a fraction of the fraction of rifle deaths.
  2. Where does one get a pepper rifle? Asking for a friend.
  3. With the amount of guns in this country, no one should expect any "common sense" solution to actually work.
  4. People forget how large and expansive this country is. Govt. mandatory buy-backs wouldn't result in much of a change.
  5. The NRA is a good punching bag, but not the boogie-man they are made out to be.
  6. When we look at stats (we saw how well that worked with Neil DeGrasse Tyson), mass shooting events are very, very rare. People being scared of that possibility and not scared of any other things that has a statistically-higher chance of hurting them, are doing so based solely on emotion. We should not craft legislation that infringes on our constitutional rights based on emotion.
I think this is because the media does focus so much attention on them. While it's obviously important they do cover it, the incessant coverage leads people to believe it's happening more than it does. The same way Trump can just spout the same lies over and over again and people believe it to be true.

Just look at the kid who open-carried (with body armor, and multiple mags) into Wal-Mart the other day (Missouri, maybe?). People freaked out, a firefighter held him at gun point, and the cops openly admitted that "he's lucky to be alive". It was completely legal for him to do what he did, but the fear of a statistically-low chance of a mass shooting led people to run out of the store, the manager to pull the fire alarm, someone to hold him at gun point, and the cops to be justified in shooting and possibly killing someone who was not breaking the law in the slightest.
  1. Suicide-by-gun is often forgotten about when mentioning the number of gun deaths per year.
  2. The "militia" angle. Despite what Adam said prior, the Heller decision reinforced an individual's right to keep and bear arms.
  3. Like drug laws, some gun laws were also shaped due to black people. That's history.
  4. Stand Your Ground laws, like most laws, are sometimes misapplied and mis-directed.
  5. The Philando Castile case should enrage anyone who is a gun owner and anyone who supports concealed carry. The NRA was notable silent in that case as mentioned.
  6. The "I'm black and systemic racism is killing us" angle is tired.
  7. It's true that if gun-rights activists, including the NRA, truly believe that everyone has the right to keep and bear arms, they should be asking why the NRA ignores cases like Philando Castile.
(The auto-numbering thing here messed me all up because apparently paragraphs are bad)

I think we (i.e. the govt.) needs to recognize the fact that guns aren't going away and putting more and more restrictions on what types of weapons are available will not have the desired affect (unless, of course, the intent is to simply have less and less people own them....sort of like Adam's section about how the NRA spent decades changing the political landscape). The government should go back to what it used to do. Provide education and training on gun use.

I'm not about to chastise this whole thing because I dislike a source or two. The fact is, he may have used some from the Brady Center, but also used some from the NRA, RAND Corporation, and news sources. If anyone thinks this was a smug attempt at pro-gun stances, I can't help you because that stance leads me to believe that anything outside of full-on "GUNS ARE THE BEST THING EVER" will always be anti-gun. That completely ignores the point of the skit. To come from both sides. I don't agree with everything, but it's laughable to say it was "Orwellian".

In the case of guns, it's such a long, complex, issue, that we can't reasonably expect a 24 minute show to cover everything. For example, it's very easy to say "Marissa Alexander is a perfect example of why SYG laws don't benefit black people" while forgetting to mention that a warning shot was NOT legal at the time and that she fired a warning shot with her kids nearby. they ignore the fact that FL law required her to get 20 years, but she took a plea deal for time served (3 years) and her case helped change the law making warning shots permissible in some cases.

The expectation is not to have a show tell people what to think, but offer objective opinions and facts from both sides and hoping the general public has enough sense to deduce the information themselves and come up with their own viewpoint. At the least, give them the kick they need to perform their own research should they not come up with a concrete opinion from a 24 minute TV show. This whole black or white thing surrounding guns (and politics in general) is not conducive to level-headed decision making.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
I haven't had the time to watch. Can you reduce the arguments to several sentences, or will it take the whole show to let me know the thoughts?


Just wait for Barr to give you misleading synopsis since you cant be bothered to read the mueller report or watch a program on guns to educate yourself
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member


Glad your lack of willingness to educate yourself and your apathy is amusing to you.

You constantly belittle others and criticize but freely admit you cant be bothered to watch a program before commenting on it and cant be bothered to read the Mueller report but happily take Barr's word for it.

You are exactly the type of person Trump relies on for support.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Glad your lack of willingness to educate yourself and your apathy is amusing to you.

You constantly belittle others and criticize but freely admit you cant be bothered to watch a program before commenting on it and cant be bothered to read the Mueller report but happily take Barr's word for it.

You are exactly the type of person Trump relies on for support.
I read the report and have quoted it repeatedly

Adam is entertainment. His facts are often wrong. If it was an interesting and intelligent discussion, I would want to see it
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
I read the report and have quoted it repeatedly

Adam is entertainment. His facts are often wrong. If it was an interesting and intelligent discussion, I would want to see it


"his facts are often wrong" Doesn't stop you from supporting Trump Hypocrite but you require more stringent standards from a Tv entertainer than president

Jesus
 
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