After approving the murder of babies, MD targets seniors...

[Bird Dog]

https://wapo.st/2HSoJUJ

I like the part that some say it too restrictive..
“The committee made significant changes to the bill that were aimed at preventing possible coercion and removing immunity from doctors who participate in the end-of-life option. Advocates say the amendments go too far and hinted at the possibility of withdrawing support for the measure if it remains in its current form.
Sen. William C. Smith Jr. (D-Montgomery), the lead sponsor in the Senate, said he thought the bill “struck a balance between the protections and the access.””

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Why should someone be forced to live with a terminal illness?

 

[Bird Dog]

Why should someone be forced to live with a terminal illness?

You don’t live from terminal illness, you die from it.........

 

[Chris0nllyn]

You don’t live from terminal illness, you die from it.........

I said live with an illness.

My question still stands.

 

[seekeroftruth]

I said live with an illness.

My question still stands.

OK... I can talk about this with first hand experience. I was diagnosed.... Stage 4 Metastatic Colon Cancer.... Terminal... go get your SS Disability..... and make your plans..

At the time... I didn't know what to think.... I did go see the guy at the funeral home.... I did talk to all my kids.... I did cry... I did move to Arizona where I could purchase legal medical marijuana to fight the cancer and mellow my attitude.

I told my doctors.... mom left me Alzheimer disease too.... so if the cancer doesn't get me.... I won't know....

I'm still here... and now they "claim" I'm cancer free.... but the blood tests show I'm just in remission holding it at bay..... and I am starting to see the signs of Alzheimer coming on..... [I say "claim" because they told me that 3 times.... and the blood tests show otherwise.]

I'm not afraid of death.... I think the daily postings show that.... and I'm looking forward to Heaven.... my family knows that.... I'm good to go....BUT.... I can't control death any more than I can control the sun coming up in the morning.

I would be afraid that the drug wouldn't work because God doesn't want me yet.... my room isn't done.... I'd be homeless in Heaven if I decided to leave earth ahead of time.....

I agree... the premise is a slippery slope.... but it's only going to work if your number is up anyway..... and being stuck on earth when you've had a taste of Heaven can be hell on earth.

Oh... and does anyone know a good medical malpractice attorney who practices in DC who might want to look at my case.... I'd appreciate a private message....

 

[Chris0nllyn]

OK... I can talk about this with first hand experience. I was diagnosed.... Stage 4 Metastatic Colon Cancer.... Terminal... go get your SS Disability..... and make your plans..

At the time... I didn't know what to think.... I did go see the guy at the funeral home.... I did talk to all my kids.... I did cry... I did move to Arizona where I could purchase legal medical marijuana to fight the cancer and mellow my attitude.

I told my doctors.... mom left me Alzheimer disease too.... so if the cancer doesn't get me.... I won't know....

I'm still here... and now they "claim" I'm cancer free.... but the blood tests show I'm just in remission holding it at bay..... and I am starting to see the signs of Alzheimer coming on..... [I say "claim" because they told me that 3 times.... and the blood tests show otherwise.]

I'm not afraid of death.... I think the daily postings show that.... and I'm looking forward to Heaven.... my family knows that.... I'm good to go....BUT.... I can't control death any more than I can control the sun coming up in the morning.

I would be afraid that the drug wouldn't work because God doesn't want me yet.... my room isn't done.... I'd be homeless in Heaven if I decided to leave earth ahead of time.....

I agree... the premise is a slippery slope.... but it's only going to work if your number is up anyway..... and being stuck on earth when you've had a taste of Heaven can be hell on earth.

Oh... and does anyone know a good medical malpractice attorney who practices in DC who might want to look at my case.... I'd appreciate a private message....

First off. I'm sorry you've had to deal with that and wish you the absolute best.

Regarding this law, you must be slated to die within 6 months to even be able to talk to your doctor about it. You have to be of sound mone enough to fill out a letter stating that you are likely going to die within 6 months and you agree that it'ws okay for the doctor to prescribe you a "suicide pill" to take when you wish.

This bill does not require patients to take the pill and a person has every right to not take that route and spend their final days in a hospital bed or their house, or wherever they choose.

I just know that I watched a very important person in my life waste away due to cancer. It was not a good experience and I feel like giving this option to people is much better than having them die slowly in hospice or worse, a hospital bed. If they so choose.

 

[Goldenhawk]

The challenge with doctor-assisted suicide (or whatever you want to call it) is that significant pressure is applied to old, infirm, sick people to "remove themselves" from burdening their family and friends. "Hey, you're already dying; just get it over with already." Just think what will happen when health insurance providers start realizing how much money they can save by withdrawing care from terminally ill patients, and when doctors get tired of handling some permanently infirm patient.

This is not theoretical: Holland and Belgium have assisted suicide / euthanasia laws, and have seen these kinds of practices blossom. When you stop protecting life, it becomes convenient to throw it away.

"Don't get Old in Belgium"

Don’t Get Old In Belgium

Forty percent of Belgians want to save money by withdrawing healthcare for those 85 and older

www.theamericanconservative.com

 

[Goldenhawk]

I just know that I watched a very important person in my life waste away due to cancer. It was not a good experience and I feel like giving this option to people is much better than having them die slowly in hospice or worse, a hospital bed. If they so choose.

I'm sorry you had to deal with watching a cancer death. So did I; a wonderful well-loved matriarch in our church was suddenly diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and we watched her waste away and die over six months. It was particularly surprising, since she was the most healthy-living person we knew.

But rather than it being a traumatic experience, I believe she taught us the "right way" to die. After all, we all die someday; she set an example for everyone to follow. Her faith never wavered, her good spirits were unflagging even on terribly painful days; she spent her final months contacting people and encouraging them and writing letters and recording videos and audio for her grandchildren. Furthermore, the entire community rallied around the family for support and food and care for the survivors and sick alike. The entirety of the circumstances around her final months brought the community together in a way that nothing else possibly could have done. I truly believe that if she had taken the "easy way" out, we would all have been left far worse off.

Granted, not everyone can do that. But my point is that death and suffering are part of life, and trying to eliminate them can only leave us all weaker.

 

[seekeroftruth]

The challenge with doctor-assisted suicide (or whatever you want to call it) is that significant pressure is applied to old, infirm, sick people to "remove themselves" from burdening their family and friends. "Hey, you're already dying; just get it over with already." Just think what will happen when health insurance providers start realizing how much money they can save by withdrawing care from terminally ill patients, and when doctors get tired of handling some permanently infirm patient.

This is not theoretical: Holland and Belgium have assisted suicide / euthanasia laws, and have seen these kinds of practices blossom. When you stop protecting life, it becomes convenient to throw it away.

"Don't get Old in Belgium"

Don’t Get Old In Belgium

Forty percent of Belgians want to save money by withdrawing healthcare for those 85 and older

www.theamericanconservative.com

First of all... if my family and friends say "go ahead" well... they probably deserve the right to say that... I've had my horrible moments.... but... that aside....

I had a friend... who took me to lunch when she learned I have cancer.... she wanted to make me feel better.... and encourage me... she died a couple weeks later with un-diagnosed bladder cancer.... she didn't get her six months.... and they kept the pain down.

The insurance companies are already writing some of us off in clever ways... one of the surgeries they did on me left a hole 5" long in my abdominal muscles.... yep a 5" hernia.... and the last thing the doctor said was "well you can wear a girdle". Yep... but a girdle doesn't take the place of actual working abdominal muscles. The insurance company doesn't want to fork over the thousands and thousands of dollars it would cost to correct. I will have to file a suit against the original doctor who messed me up to get the money to repair the damage that he did in the first place because the insurance company won't cover "elective" surgery. AND if I did file suit and get a few bucks... the insurance company wants me to pay them back first....

Don't worry.... if the government wants to pass that bill... they will. There's really nothing we can do about it.... we're only fooling ourselves.... we can remember this in November.... but then again.... there will be a worse evil thing to remember when November gets here and the law will go through without consequence to those who offered it up.

Fact.... we can't go until it's time.

 

[Goldenhawk]

I truly believe that if she had taken the "easy way" out, we would all have been left far worse off.

By the way, to reply to myself... she chose NOT to receive chemotherapy once it was clear that her condition was truly terminal. She and her husband looked at the data and the likely symptoms and how long it would extend her life (a few months at most) and together they decided that she would rather be clear-headed and more functional so that she could devote herself to both her faith and her family - calling and talking and recording.

I suppose you could argue that not taking chemo could be compared to choosing suicide. But I don't think so. If she thought there was a chance it would cure her, she would have done it.

I've watched two other aging family members "give up" as the end drew near, and they went very quickly after that. I think when the mind decides to give up on living, the body soon follows.

 

[seekeroftruth]

By the way, to reply to myself... she chose NOT to receive chemotherapy once it was clear that her condition was truly terminal. She and her husband looked at the data and the likely symptoms and how long it would extend her life (a few months at most) and together they decided that she would rather be clear-headed and more functional so that she could devote herself to both her faith and her family - calling and talking and recording.

I suppose you could argue that not taking chemo could be compared to choosing suicide. But I don't think so. If she thought there was a chance it would cure her, she would have done it.

I've watched two other aging family members "give up" as the end drew near, and they went very quickly after that. I think when the mind decides to give up on living, the body soon follows.

I know a man with lung cancer.... he's in his 90's and he is refusing chemo. I knew a man about my age, brain cancer.... he went the imunotherapy route.... it worked for a while.... then he passed. I had an aunt who was diagnosed with something terminal and she chose the stem cell route... she passed within weeks. I myself was told [after the first surgery that messed everything up] that I didn't need chemo "it wouldn't do any good anyway" because cancer runs in my family.... wound up getting the chemo anyway after the original surgery spread the cancer and made me terminal....

It's all personal.... I doubt your friend would have taken the pill if it were made available to her. While she must have been truly anxious to see her place in Heaven.... I bet she knew... God controls time and there is nothing we can do to change that... we can't go until he's ready for us.... until then... we have to stay where we are... and stop trying to play God... telling Him what we want Him to do....

 

[Bird Dog]

I said live with an illness.

My question still stands.

My answer is you shouldn't be forced or coerced to die............

 

[Chris0nllyn]

My answer is you shouldn't be forced or coerced to die............

Where on earth did you get that idea from?

No one would be forced or coerced into dying. It's a personal choice and needs buy-in from a doctor.

 

[Goldenhawk]

No one would be forced or coerced into dying. It's a personal choice and needs buy-in from a doctor.

Read my post above with the link to "Don't Get Old in Belgium." In countries where assisted suicide and euthanasia are normalized, they have found that over time the elderly and infirm are increasingly pressured by family and medical personnel to just get on with it "for the good of" society or family or finances. Forced? Coerced? Who's to say when it crosses the line? "It's your choice but it would be best for everyone else if..."

This is easy to discuss when you're young and virile. Not so much when you're old and infirm.

 

[Yooper]

My answer is you shouldn't be forced or coerced to die............

Where on earth did you get that idea from?

No one would be forced or coerced into dying. It's a personal choice and needs buy-in from a doctor.

Therein lies the rub.

As mentioned in previous posts to this thread it's an easy jaunt from "because I want to" to "because we need you to" (with the "we" being family, employers, health/medical insurance entities (especially, the govt if it gets control over health care)).

And even if we are speaking strictly about personal choice, we haven't satisfactorily worked through "frame of mind" or "informed consent" issues....

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[littlelady]

OK... I can talk about this with first hand experience. I was diagnosed.... Stage 4 Metastatic Colon Cancer.... Terminal... go get your SS Disability..... and make your plans..

At the time... I didn't know what to think.... I did go see the guy at the funeral home.... I did talk to all my kids.... I did cry... I did move to Arizona where I could purchase legal medical marijuana to fight the cancer and mellow my attitude.

I told my doctors.... mom left me Alzheimer disease too.... so if the cancer doesn't get me.... I won't know....

I'm still here... and now they "claim" I'm cancer free.... but the blood tests show I'm just in remission holding it at bay..... and I am starting to see the signs of Alzheimer coming on..... [I say "claim" because they told me that 3 times.... and the blood tests show otherwise.]

I'm not afraid of death.... I think the daily postings show that.... and I'm looking forward to Heaven.... my family knows that.... I'm good to go....BUT.... I can't control death any more than I can control the sun coming up in the morning.

I would be afraid that the drug wouldn't work because God doesn't want me yet.... my room isn't done.... I'd be homeless in Heaven if I decided to leave earth ahead of time.....

I agree... the premise is a slippery slope.... but it's only going to work if your number is up anyway..... and being stuck on earth when you've had a taste of Heaven can be hell on earth.

Oh... and does anyone know a good medical malpractice attorney who practices in DC who might want to look at my case.... I'd appreciate a private message....

You are awesome!

 

[Bird Dog]

.......and our State legislature thinks the bill coming out of committee is too restrictive now..........

"It does a disservice when the experience that [terminally ill patients] have is roadblocks,” Callinan said. “All the things that they did in this bill will just further deter doctors from practicing and put more barriers in place for dying patients.” Too bad......

 

[BernieP]

We have replaced God with those who would be god

 

[This_person]

Where on earth did you get that idea from?

No one would be forced or coerced into dying. It's a personal choice and needs buy-in from a doctor.

Why does suicide require buy-in from a doctor?

I submit to you that many people commit suicide on an hourly basis without a single doctor doing a darned thing to help them.

I have absolutely no problem with an adult having the right to take their own life. What could be more a sign of freedom than that? But, what in the world makes you believe that requires buy-in from a doctor?

 

[black dog]

[QUOTE="This_person, post: 5982570, member: 11
I have absolutely no problem with an adult having the right to take their own life. What could be more a sign of freedom than that? But, what in the world makes you believe that requires buy-in from a doctor?
[/QUOTE]

Me neither, my father decided when it was time for me to open that box of drugs in the refrigerator. It was available for months.