Afterlife?

[This_person]

He is obviously a Christian and was judging someone else. I was judging him against his own Christian standard. I TRY very hard not to judge people (giving them a hard time is another thing completely) but I will call out hypocricy when I see it.

Psy's imperfection is worse than Bob's or WxTornado's because he's a Christian?

 

[camily]

So if I'm worthy I go to heaven, but if my kids aren't worthy I never get to see them again??

If you accept Jesus you go to Heaven, if your kids don't and they are grown then sadly yes. This is why it's a parents job to raise them up in the ways of the Bible.

 

[wxtornado]

Bob declared his opinion fact, Psy was sinking to WXTornado's level of inflammatory comment. :shrug:

How was me saying that God told me it is all a scam being inflammatory?? Or is this just another ad hominem...?

 

[This_person]

How was me saying that God told me it is all a scam being inflammatory?? Or is this just another ad hominem...?

• You repeatedly argue against the concept of there even being a God

• The concept of there being a God would negate it being fiction, so the comment didn't even meet common sense

• In context, it was clear to even the most casual observer your only point was to counter my calling Bob out on his disrespectful, factually inaccurate statement to divert the conversation to something more palatable for atheist thought process.

 

[Zguy28]

So if I'm worthy I go to heaven, but if my kids aren't worthy I never get to see them again??

Hmm...I sense a setup of some kind with this one...

You've read the bible right? That's what you said.

Then you shouldn't have to ask these questions. Right?

 

[itsbob]

If you accept Jesus you go to Heaven, if your kids don't and they are grown then sadly yes. This is why it's a parents job to raise them up in the ways of the Bible.

So the Mormons belief, and their stance on families is much better..

They have multiple levels of 'heaven' and you can/ will get sealed to your spouse and children for all time and eternity while still on this earth.

I don't know about you, but I think heaven would be a VERY sad place without my family and my children.

 

[pixiegirl]

Nope, but apparently perfectly fine for atheists.

Sorry Jesus, I'm not an atheist. Far from you judgmental ass.

 

[Zguy28]

So the Mormons belief, and their stance on families is much better..

They have multiple levels of 'heaven' and you can/ will get sealed to your spouse and children for all time and eternity while still on this earth.

I don't know about you, but I think heaven would be a VERY sad place without my family and my children.

And yet the Scriptures say that when Heaven and Earth are re-made that there will be no more tears or sadness.

But you knew that right?

It's funny you bring that up though, what happens when you've had more than one spouse?

(I seem to remember Jesus being asked the same question)

 

[camily]

So the Mormons belief, and their stance on families is much better..

They have multiple levels of 'heaven' and you can/ will get sealed to your spouse and children for all time and eternity while still on this earth.

I don't know about you, but I think heaven would be a VERY sad place without my family and my children.

That's because you're looking at it as a person alive here on earth. Once in Heaven you won't miss those people. You'll be overjoyed with the people you do see. You won't have thoughts of those on earth or those not in Heaven. There is no sadness in Heaven.
I don't know what Mormons believe.

 

[Zguy28]

That's because you're looking at it as a person alive here on earth. Once in Heaven you won't miss those people. You'll be overjoyed with the people you do see. You won't have thoughts of those on earth or those not in Heaven. There is no sadness in Heaven.
I don't know what Mormons believe.

We must be careful to rightly divide the Scriptures. The Bible actually says that those in heaven as it exists now are aware of happenings on earth. It is only after the redemption of all creation that it will be eternal joy.

 

[camily]

So the Mormons belief, and their stance on families is much better..

They have multiple levels of 'heaven' and you can/ will get sealed to your spouse and children for all time and eternity while still on this earth.

I don't know about you, but I think heaven would be a VERY sad place without my family and my children.

"God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:4).
*I realize this is referring to a new Heaven and new earth

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him (1 Corinthians 2:9).

 

[camily]

We must be careful to rightly divide the Scriptures. The Bible actually says that those in heaven as it exists now are aware of happenings on earth. It is only after the redemption of all creation that it will be eternal joy.

The Bible does not specifically say whether or not people in heaven can look down on us who are still on the earth. It is highly unlikely that they can. Why? First, they would sometimes see things that would cause them grief or pain, namely, acts of sin and evil. Since there is no grief, tears, or unhappiness in heaven (Revelation 21:4), it does not seem that observing earthly events would be possible. Second, people in heaven are so preoccupied with worshipping God and enjoying the glories of heaven that it does not seem they would have significant interest in what is happening here on earth. The very fact that they are free from sin and experiencing God’s presence in heaven surely is more than enough to captivate their attention. While it is possible that God allows people in heaven to look down upon their loved ones, the Bible gives us no reason to believe this actually occurs.

Can people in heaven look down and see us?

 

[This_person]

Sorry Jesus, I'm not an atheist. Far from you judgmental ass.

I wasn't calling you an atheist. I was calling you out on admonishing the Christians while giving atheists a pass for doing the same thing.

Not judgement, just a statement of fact. If it made you feel bad, I'm sorry for you that you feel that way.

 

[Beaver-Cleaver]

So, if you go to heaven when you die, what will it be like? Will your friends and family be there? What ages will you (and they) be? Will you be the age you were when you died? What will it look like? Clouds? Angels? Harps? I'm curious. What will you *do* there?

Heaven rejected me and hell was afraid I would take over so I was reincarnated as a beaver.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Hey IT, I'mMe said absence of "proof", not absence of evidence. There's a whopper of a difference between the two. Proof, as he/she said, would not require faith; however, evidence, as you have said, does ultimately require a leap of faith. I'm sure he/she will accept your humble apology.

Baloooney! Proof is evidence & vice-versa, any way you look at it...you're splitting hairs here.

Your example of proof is Creation. but the existence of something is not a direct correlation to the Creator. I walk out in the morning a see a beautiful sky and praise the Lord for the blessing...The non believer walks out and just thinks "nice day". No matter how nice a day it is, the existence of the sun is not going to convert a tried and true atheist.
That doesn't change the truth. The atheist CHOSE to deny God just as you are doing by saying that. God said: the creation IS proof of His existence (Romans 1 v 20) or are you friends with Bob in denying what the Bible says???
I don't see any reason to fight with you over the strength of my faith or my religious education and frankly I don't understand your need to question them, just because we disagree.
It's YOUR words that deny what God has said, that's why I'm on you about them. This is why we have division in Christianity. It's not and never has been based on what someone thinks it means. Misinterpreting a verse doesn't change it's meaning but people are led astray because of it and then it snowballs.
You are a piece of work, Man, and this time you did not make me smile. (...and no. Putting smiley faces at the end of a mean spirited diatribe does not make it any less mean.) Have a day.

Although it looks like I'm mad at you, I'm not. That's why the flowers and the buddies icons. I'm here for the truth because I care and, since there is no hatred towards you, just debate and leave your feelings out of it.

A lot of what you think is proof has been debunked, but there is a list of 1000 excuses as to why the debunkers were wrong.. Shroud of Turin ring a bell??

There you go earthling, taking man's word over God's Word.
Shroud of Turin is NOT in the Bible so.....irrelevant.

So if I'm worthy I go to heaven, but if my kids aren't worthy I never get to see them again??

Yep! Should kinda make you want to wise up and raise them right, eh?

So the Mormons belief, and their stance on families is much better..
They have multiple levels of 'heaven' and you can/ will get sealed to your spouse and children for all time and eternity while still on this earth.
I don't know about you, but I think heaven would be a VERY sad place without my family and my children.

But the Mormons are wrong....so again, irrelevant.

The Bible actually says that those in heaven as it exists now are aware of happenings on earth.

Please show me this also. I've never seen that in the Bible.

 

[Zguy28]

The Bible does not specifically say whether or not people in heaven can look down on us who are still on the earth. It is highly unlikely that they can. Why? First, they would sometimes see things that would cause them grief or pain, namely, acts of sin and evil. Since there is no grief, tears, or unhappiness in heaven (Revelation 21:4), it does not seem that observing earthly events would be possible. Second, people in heaven are so preoccupied with worshipping God and enjoying the glories of heaven that it does not seem they would have significant interest in what is happening here on earth. The very fact that they are free from sin and experiencing God’s presence in heaven surely is more than enough to captivate their attention. While it is possible that God allows people in heaven to look down upon their loved ones, the Bible gives us no reason to believe this actually occurs.

Can people in heaven look down and see us?

I normally agree with most of what that site has to say, but in this instance I earnestly think they get it wrong.

I hadn't thought of the Hebrews passage. They do a poor job of explaining why they interpret it the way they do. The only other Scripture they use is Revelation 21. I've got news...do you think that Revelation 21 has happened yet?

EDIT: (I do happen to believe that Hebrews describes what I am talking about BTW)

Notice how that chapter opens:
Revelation 21:1-4

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Emphasis mine.

So, have the old earth and the old Heaven passed away already?

Let's look back a little further in Revelation 6:

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

This is the passage I was thinking of. However upon closer examination, I think it doesn't really say one way or the other. Although I would think if the Saints are still beseeching God for justice and vindication that He hasn't judged the world yet and hence Revelation 21 hasn't happened yet. The Great White Throne judgment must come before the new heaven and new earth.

We see one other passage in Revelation dealing with the state of those in heaven.

Revelation 7

13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"

14I answered, "Sir, you know."

And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,
"they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
16Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them,
nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living water.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Notice the future tense of this passage?

Not trying to tear down anybody's view of heaven, but just trying to point out a logical fallacy.

 

[MissKitty]

I wasn't calling you an atheist. I was calling you out on admonishing the Christians while giving atheists a pass for doing the same thing.

Not judgement, just a statement of fact. If it made you feel bad, I'm sorry for you that you feel that way.

I just want to say that that is far from an apology. When you apologize, you offer it for your offense. Not sorry what someone else is feeling. :yourwelcome:

 

[PsyOps]

If it made you feel bad, I'm sorry for you that you feel that way.

Weird statement.

 

[MissKitty]

That's because you're looking at it as a person alive here on earth. Once in Heaven you won't miss those people. You'll be overjoyed with the people you do see. You won't have thoughts of those on earth or those not in Heaven. There is no sadness in Heaven.
I don't know what Mormons believe.

I'm glad to know that you won't GAF about your own children anymore if they happen to go to hell.

 

[This_person]

I just want to say that that is far from an apology. When you apologize, you offer it for your offense. Not sorry what someone else is feeling. :yourwelcome:

I had nothing to apologize for. I wasn't apologizing for my actions, I was offering sympathy for her problem.