Alabama Senate election

[PsyOps]

It's the difference between you deciding to pull the plug on your terminally ill child, and some stranger doing it without your permission. Can we agree that children belong to their parents and not to the government? Or do you just want to go Brave New World and be done with it?

Emotion aside, what's it to you if a woman aborts her child? Remember: emotion aside. And religion aside, as well, because we're not a theocracy.

You're equating a terminally ill child, who is going to die anyway, to a living human fetus with absolutely nothing wrong with it? Pick a better analogy.

You should know where I stand on abortion by now. I am not willing to go as far as having the government step in and ban abortion. But, I believe at-will abortion is an abomination on our existence. It's a societal problem, not a government problem. My take on this is not a religious one; it's about human life and when that life actually begins. We've become comfortable throwing words like "viability" out there to redefine what life is. A single cell organism is still a life.

Once a child is born, it does belong to the parents, but they don't have the right to terminate that child's life simply because it became an inconvenience - or for any other reason, for that matter. When it comes to born human life, the government is going to be involved. Again, the pregnant mother can terminate that life while a murderer can't. It's either a human life or it's not.

 

[vraiblonde]

It's either a human life or it's not.

Actually, it's more like potential human life, unless you really want to play fast and loose with the term "life".

But, I believe at-will abortion is an abomination on our existence. It's a societal problem, not a government problem.

I mostly agree with that, but I'm not inclined to get all personal and inflict my morals that much on people I don't even know. Regardless, I've proposed my solution to this problem. What's yours?

 

[This_person]

Actually, it's more like potential human life, unless you really want to play fast and loose with the term "life".

Scientifically, it is already a separate human life with its own DNA, etc. Not "potential", actual human life.

The "potential" comes in the form of potential viability. It is a human life that is potentially (varying potential at varying stages of development) viable outside the womb.

I mostly agree with that, but I'm not inclined to get all personal and inflict my morals that much on people I don't even know. Regardless, I've proposed my solution to this problem. What's yours?

Where do you draw the line at not "inflicting" your morals on people you don't know? Are you ok with it being illegal to kill them after birth? How about raping them? How about if it is Sharia honor killing - is that acceptable?

As for me, my solution remains making all forms of murder illegal, including elective abortion. Part of real freedom means personal responsibility, so if these parents want to have responsibility, limit the amount of time they can be on welfare programs. Incarcerate mother, father, and doctor (if father can be proven aware of the abortion) for all abortions like attempted or actual murder (depending on if they were successful abortions). Suddenly, there will be far fewer unwanted pregnancies.

 

[vraiblonde]

As for me, my solution remains making all forms of murder illegal, including elective abortion.

Okay, walk it through. POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?

Are people going to stop having unprotected sex?

 

[Kyle]

I'm in favor of every progtard aborting every child they conceive.

 

[PsyOps]

Actually, it's more like potential human life, unless you really want to play fast and loose with the term "life".

Two question unequivocally answer whether human or not:

Is it a life - Yes! We know it's a life because we're even willing to say single celled amoeba are life.
Is it a human life - Yes! We know it's a human life because it came about from two human beings.

Anything outside of that is dancing around with semantics.

I'm not willing to inflict my morals on anyone either; otherwise I'd be out there calling for a ban on it and protesting in front of abortion clinics. But I do teeter on the fence with it being murder. I keep coming back to that double-standard of it being murder when someone other than the pregnant mother kills that baby, but it's not when the mother kills it.

 

[Kyle]

I keep coming back to that double-standard of it being murder when someone other than the pregnant mother kills that baby, but it's not when the mother kills it.

That needs to be resolved.

 

[vraiblonde]

Is it a life - Yes! We know it's a life because we're even willing to say single celled amoeba are life.

In my mind, that's playing fast and loose with definitions. But whatever.

I'll ask you the same as TP:

POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?

Are people going to stop having unprotected sex?

 

[PsyOps]

In my mind, that's playing fast and loose with definitions. But whatever.

So, we find a microbe on Mars. Is it a life form or not? What efforts do we go through to preserve that life form?

Do you agree with the federal law that makes it a crime for a human to even disturb (touch) a sea turtle egg?

 

[PsyOps]

I'll ask you the same as TP:

POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?

Are people going to stop having unprotected sex?

With this rationale we should just do away with all laws. Murder, rape, theft, etc... are all illegal, yet people still commit those crimes. Having a law that forbids something doesn't create any illusion in my mind that thing will suddenly stop happening. It is the government's responsibility to pass laws that protect innocent people from harm; and who's more innocent among us than an unborn child?

 

[vraiblonde]

With this rationale we should just do away with all laws. Murder, rape, theft, etc... are all illegal, yet people still commit those crimes. Having a law that forbids something doesn't create any illusion in my mind that thing will suddenly stop happening. It is the government's responsibility to pass laws that protect innocent people from harm; and who's more innocent among us than an unborn child?

That was fun, but you avoided my question, which was:

POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?

Are people going to stop having unprotected sex?

 

[Gilligan]

That was fun, but you avoided my question, which was:

POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?

Are people going to stop having unprotected sex?

I know I have.

 

[Bird Dog]

In my mind, that's playing fast and loose with definitions. But whatever.

I'll ask you the same as TP:

POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?
?

I would hope abortion no longer becomes a method of birth control.
I would hope people wold think sex has consequences and take appropriate measures
I would hope we would quit killing unborn children.....the most defenseless of us all.
We are never going to stop abortion..just like drugs...but you can hope

....just sayin’

 

[vraiblonde]

I would hope abortion no longer becomes a method of birth control.
I would hope people wold think sex has consequences and take appropriate measures
I would hope we would quit killing unborn children.....the most defenseless of us all.
We are never going to stop abortion..just like drugs...but you can hope

....just sayin’

Do you really think these crackheads and thugs will really think sex has consequences and take appropriate measures?

Really?

Not hope, now, but honestly expect it to happen?

 

[Bird Dog]

Do you really think these crackheads and thugs will really think sex has consequences and take appropriate measures?

Really?

Not hope, now, but honestly expect it to happen?

Of course not......

 

[PrchJrkr]

On the other hand, as a practical matter for the good of society, I'm in favor of keeping these mindless animals from popping out bebes they're just going to neglect and abuse, and increasing their numbers. Paying for their abortions is way cheaper than paying for their future kid's incarceration and any other detrimental effect they'll have on society.

rcs:

I myself find abortion appalling, but until we can get laws passed for forced sterilization of the welfare masses, it's our best hope.

As I've said before, any woman who chooses abortion as birth control, wouldn't be a good mother anyway. With morals like that, we as a society shouldn't allow them to reproduce.

 

[This_person]

Okay, walk it through. POOF! Abortion is illegal.

Now what?

Are people going to stop having unprotected sex?

Absolutely not. However, once elective-abortion is no longer an option for birth control, I do anticipate the amount of unprotected sex will drop drastically. I also anticipate that the amount of adoptable babies will skyrocket - for a little while. Recall, since 1970, out-of-wedlock birth rates have soared. In 1965, 24%t of black infants and 3.1% of white infants were born to single mothers. By 1990 the rates had risen to 64% for black infants, 18% for whites. What changed? It became illegal for states to exercise their 10th amendment authority and write laws their people wanted with respect to abortion, and, the pill. Both of those things (mostly the latter) greatly changed women's role in sexual relationships. Add to that a media onslaught of good girls who became single mothers, and the stigma of out-of-wedlock parenting was slowly eroded away until Murphy Brown declared women don't even need men to have a baby and parent it.

These things will never change overnight, or even within a single generation.

 

[This_person]

Do you really think these crackheads and thugs will really think sex has consequences and take appropriate measures?

Really?

Not hope, now, but honestly expect it to happen?

Again, it really was the norm in the past. No, I would not expect to see drastic turns even in the first year, but after several I definitely would expect to see the turns, and a new (old) status quo.

 

[SamSpade]

Do you really think these crackheads and thugs will really think sex has consequences and take appropriate measures?

I agree. Expecting they will change is not an intelligent reason for stopping abortion.

It's also why I'm against legalizing drugs. There's this idiotic supposition that drug users are just innocently entertaining themselves and not bothering anyone, and that legalizing them will just let them responsibly do it at home without bothering anyone.

Nitwits who abuse drugs will abuse anything legal also. Court dockets that are full of people illegally possessing drugs will STILL be in court for recklessly USING them and endangering others. Stupid is stupid, and you can't cure it.

 

[Hijinx]

rcs:

I myself find abortion appalling, but until we can get laws passed for forced sterilization of the welfare masses, it's our best hope.

As I've said before, any woman who chooses abortion as birth control, wouldn't be a good mother anyway. With morals like that, we as a society shouldn't allow them to reproduce.

I have to grudgingly see your point.
800.000 to 900,000 children each year we don't have to pay out welfare for.
Build schools to teach.
Still to make a point. That would be welfare and schools for American kids and not the Hispanics illegals we are providing those schools and welfare for now.