All this Revelation speculation

hotcoffee

hotcoffee

New Member
I too believe that when Christ comes again it will be to renew the earth. I think a lot of that hinges on the fact that the Jews were waiting on someone to be the King. That's why they just couldn't accept Christ as King when he was here the first time.... opening the kingdom to the Gentiles.

But I'm not a preacher .... only a reader... and for far to long people put off reading Revelation because it was [in the words of one of my Sunday School teachers] "too far out there".

:coffee:
 
baydoll

baydoll

New Member
From your article:

The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:

According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Click to expand...

This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].


Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepan...-rapture-isnt-biblical/#ixzz33xknOllM[/QUOTE]

I'll address this objection first (and briefly) as I don't have a lot of time this morning but the Thessalonian text precisely states that we will be CAUGHT up WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Not much wiggle room in that very straightforward and specific verse to twist it to mean bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. It doesn't say that. It says IN THE CLOUDS in the AIR.

Also, this is the Rapture, not the Second Coming. At the Rapture, Jesus doesn't come to earth. He descends into the clouds, where we are caught up 'in the air' to Him. In contrast, Jesus' Second Coming passages have the Lord touching down on the Mount of Olives. A different event from the rapture/resurrection of the Church totally.

RAPTURE AND SECOND COMING CONTRASTS - http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt10.html
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Zguy28

Zguy28

New Member
baydoll said:
From your article:

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I'll address this objection first (and briefly) as I don't have a lot of time this morning but the Thessalonian text precisely states that we will be CAUGHT up WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Not much wiggle room in that very straightforward and specific verse to twist it to mean bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. It doesn't say that. It says IN THE CLOUDS in the AIR.

Also, this is the Rapture, not the Second Coming. At the Rapture, Jesus doesn't come to earth. He descends into the clouds, where we are caught up 'in the air' to Him. In contrast, Jesus' Second Coming passages have the Lord touching down on the Mount of Olives. A different event from the rapture/resurrection of the Church totally.

RAPTURE AND SECOND COMING CONTRASTS - http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt10.html
Click to expand...
I disagree. Rapture ("Catching up") is part of the Second Coming.
 
hotcoffee

hotcoffee

New Member
baydoll said:
From your article:

[/url]

I'll address this objection first (and briefly) as I don't have a lot of time this morning but the Thessalonian text precisely states that we will be CAUGHT up WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. Not much wiggle room in that very straightforward and specific verse to twist it to mean bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. It doesn't say that. It says IN THE CLOUDS in the AIR.

Also, this is the Rapture, not the Second Coming. At the Rapture, Jesus doesn't come to earth. He descends into the clouds, where we are caught up 'in the air' to Him. In contrast, Jesus' Second Coming passages have the Lord touching down on the Mount of Olives. A different event from the rapture/resurrection of the Church totally.

RAPTURE AND SECOND COMING CONTRASTS - http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt10.html
Click to expand...

Zguy28 said:
I disagree. Rapture ("Catching up") is part of the Second Coming.
Click to expand...

I think those of us who have hung in there until death are going to make it to Heaven before the 7th seal is broken.

Those of us who are alive when the 7th seal is broken will be here to see Him come to earth to be King of the Jews, The Son of God, and Perfect Human from the Line of Judah. No one will be able to beat that. It'll be Heaven on Earth!

:coffee:
 
baydoll

baydoll

New Member
Zguy28 said:
I disagree. Rapture ("Catching up") is part of the Second Coming.
Click to expand...

No, these are two entirely different events; The Rapture has believers 'caught up to meet the Lord IN THE AIR' vs. the Second Coming in which Christ’s feet touches down upon Mt. Olives: 'In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount will split in its middle' (Zech. 14:4).

I have more but I'm a bit pressed for time this morning.
 
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Zguy28

Zguy28

New Member
baydoll said:
No, these are two entirely different events; The Rapture has believers 'caught up to meet the Lord IN THE AIR' vs. the Second Coming in which Christ’s feet touches down upon Mt. Olives: 'In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount will split in its middle' (Zech. 14:4).

I have more but I'm a bit pressed for time this morning.
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What I am saying is that it all happens together. I am a Historic Premillenialist, not Dispensational.
 
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D

Doug_at_IHM

New Member
The "Rapture", no Christian denomination ever heard of the rapture until Charles Darby (Plymouth Brethren) came on the scene. Darby started teaching this around 1830. False Doctrine, "Teachings of Men". One event, Second coming of Christ.
Good book on Revelation, Read Scott Hahns, The Lambs Supper.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Zguy28 said:
What I am saying is that it all happens together. I am a Historic Premillenialist, not Dispensational.
Click to expand...

Can't be the same time. There is a seven year difference. Woe to those who are around for those seven years. All what you say plus the anti-Christ at the same time cannot be.

I'm saying that if you are a born again Christian now, you won't have to deal with anything concerning the tribulation. God provides for His, and He will not make us go through any of the horrors of those seven years. Would you tell your children you have to suffer horribly, even though I have planned an escape for you?

It will be a spectacle to behold, but I don't know if we will be compelled to watch it or not. I don't think I would want to watch people I know........

But considering the current circumstances, wouldn't surprise me at all to be very soon, even today. The preparation of oneself in Christ is all that counts. We can disagree on the little stuff, like when.
 
hotcoffee

hotcoffee

New Member
Have you noticed.... we're in Revelation online here and the crazies are really out....

I wonder what the people thought when demons were sent packing by Jesus.... I wonder how the humans really reacted....

We saw it once when the demons asked to be put in the pigs.... humans were scared but still didn't believe.... guess they had their own demons they were dealing with.... they asked Jesus to leave.... how sad.

I figure if I'm still here after the first few seals have been opened.... then there must be something for me to do....

I'm glad I learned this in Sunday School.....

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.​

Somewhere I heard "God will never give you more than you can handle."

I just like reading the books of the Bible....

:coffee:
 
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