Alyssa Milano: “But isn’t it worth trying?”

Kyle

Having a Beer while the world burns!
PREMO Member
Most gun laws treat every person as a potential Nikolas Cruz - while totally ignoring the Nikolas Cruz in front of them.

You don't put down every dog, because one might be Cujo - you get rid of Cujo.
You do when you're a POS Elected Official that's desparately trying to control the population of dogs they're terrified of!
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they should just kill the first-born. How'd that work for Ramses?
Well, Herod decided to kill ALL of the toddler males in his kingdom to avoid losing his throne.
Didn't work - Jesus' family had been warned - and he died anyway - apparently from an unknown illness so painful,
he attempted suicide often. Hated by his subjects, no one mourned his passing. Really. He'd already killed many members
of his own family, including the wife that John the Baptist was so upset over.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
A listers are usually busy working because they are in demand. Looks like it isn't Hallmark channel filming season so she has a little time on her hands.
My wife watches enough Hallmark Channel (well Hallmark Murders and Mysteries actually) that even I know they wouldn't hire Alyssa.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
What we have, once again, is the sense that "we must DO something".
Sometimes there's nothing you can do. People are going to be mentally ill. They're going to steal and kill and be irresponsible. Dogs are going to bite. Rabbits are going to crap on the floor.

I'd rather address things from the perspective of, "This is going to happen; then what?" The old "We must make sure this NEVER happens AGAIN!! :drama: " is silly and counterproductive. We also worry about the dumbest things. Gun violence isn't even in the top 10 of what people die of in this country, yet we are told to obsess about it and ignore the things that DO kill people.

In my mind it's pretty simple: the Ron White method. If you kill someone, we will kill you back. Put down our rabid dogs, and crate the ones who can't seem to stop wrecking the house when we're away.

Most of our societal problems are easy to alleviate. We just have to be tough and committed. Unfortunately we have a faction in this country that wants to see us fail, and they have a big megaphone, and humans are easily led. It's a bunch of political power nonsense and it's dismaying to see so many fall for it.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Sometimes there's nothing you can do. People are going to be mentally ill. They're going to steal and kill and be irresponsible. Dogs are going to bite. Rabbits are going to crap on the floor.
I do have to think that "crazed psychopath teen is going to get a semi automatic and shoot up his school" has to be up there with stuff we ought to be able to prevent, just like "I'm hijacking this plane" has mostly disappeared.

When I was 15 I was living with my dad at one of his friend's house - and he had a room stocked to the ceiling with guns. Granted, it was locked, but it really wouldn't have been too hard to break into it. I was miserable - my family was living in our still unable to sell home, and I not only had made very few friends, most evenings my Dad wasn't home until dark and I spent most of my time alone. Worse, I was tormented by the cool kids in my new school. I'm too embarrassed even now to mention the kinds of things they did.

I could EASILY have gone all ballistic. To this day, some of them might have earned it. But I didn't. I did think about it - for a few seconds.

It didn't happen back then. At least, if it did, I never heard about it. So why is today different? Nowadays if you're tormented and bullied, the authorities roll out the red carpet for you. Back then if you didn't get laughed at, they'd tell you to just suck it up.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
It didn't happen back then. At least, if it did, I never heard about it.
I think that's a lot of it - we didn't hear about it. Who was the guy in the 60s who climbed the university tower and started picking off students? The song, "I Don't Like Mondays" is about a school shooter in '79. So it happened, it just wasn't 24/7 news coverage and used for ratings. And that type of coverage almost certainly puts ideas in the minds of the mentally ill and encourages them to act out something they might not have done normally.

FACT: if a sicko is willing to die, there's nothing you can do to stop them. A big deterrent is not wanting to get caught, so the perp is hesitant. If they fully expect or want to die, they come in blasting and don't care about consequences. There's nothing you can do about those people.
 

AnthonyJames

R.I.P. My Brother Rick
I'm thinking her husband is being punished daily with her antics, and sewing her shut would probably be a blessing to him.
Why? If he doesn't want her he can divorce her. Vrai says she doesn't want her to procreate anymore, tying the tubes accomplishes that and her husband can enjoy himself if he wishes.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The fact IS, he was a known sadistic psychopath and everyone knew it. You don't need more gun laws - you need people willing to deal with this problem BEFORE the shooting starts.
The Gabby Gifford's Shooter EVERYONE just knew he was crazy [well certainly weird] his classmates and teachers in college were fearful of the guy ... he gave off a creepy weird vibe ... but until the shooting starts you cannot lock up someone one for being odd or weird
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
The Gabby Gifford's Shooter EVERYONE just knew he was crazy [well certainly weird] his classmates and teachers in college were fearful of the guy ... he gave off a creepy weird vibe ... but until the shooting starts you cannot lock up someone one for being odd or weird
That's the thing. While I agree with Sam's post you quoted, what are we supposed to do? You can't limit someone's freedom because they're different.

What I think we need to do is, as a people, modify our culture over the next generation or so to allow for mental health issues to be renamed/revisualized as just health issues, same as any other. If we do that, remove stigma from mental health issues, we may be able to treat them better, and thus help people much earlier on.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
That's the thing. While I agree with Sam's post you quoted, what are we supposed to do? You can't limit someone's freedom because they're different.
No. but you can deal with them in the normal manner. EVERYONE around Nikolas Cruz turned the other way. They ignored a problem hoping it would just go away.

You know, when I was growing up, we had a rule for when the dog took a dump in the house - whoever sees it first has to deal with it.
We were all about 10-12 years old. WHAT do you think typically happened, when the dog did it? Yep. NO ONE SAW IT. It was almost a comedy
routine where we all acted as though we didn't know it was there even when it stunk and was right in the middle of the family room where we were
watching TV. I tell a usually hysterical anecdote at home with family and friends about the time my little brother slid across the room backwards on his back - fully aware IT was there - but grossly misjudging exactly WHERE it was.

Besides the link I provided, I've read a bit about him. From that I have to conclude this was a COMPLETELY avoidable tragedy, at least the way it unfolded. Undoubtedly he might have done his atrocities elsewhere, but he should NEVER HAVE BEEN at that school. Everyone ignored what was right there, because it was easier.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
No. but you can deal with them in the normal manner. EVERYONE around Nikolas Cruz turned the other way. They ignored a problem hoping it would just go away.

You know, when I was growing up, we had a rule for when the dog took a dump in the house - whoever sees it first has to deal with it.
We were all about 10-12 years old. WHAT do you think typically happened, when the dog did it? Yep. NO ONE SAW IT. It was almost a comedy
routine where we all acted as though we didn't know it was there even when it stunk and was right in the middle of the family room where we were
watching TV. I tell a usually hysterical anecdote at home with family and friends about the time my little brother slid across the room backwards on his back - fully aware IT was there - but grossly misjudging exactly WHERE it was.

Besides the link I provided, I've read a bit about him. From that I have to conclude this was a COMPLETELY avoidable tragedy, at least the way it unfolded. Undoubtedly he might have done his atrocities elsewhere, but he should NEVER HAVE BEEN at that school. Everyone ignored what was right there, because it was easier.
As I say, you and I completely agree on this. "The normal manner", today, with most mental health issues (except drug addiction, which interestingly is the most acceptable form of mental illness, because rich people go to comfy spa-like rehabs instead of jail) is to do what you did with the doggie-doo - it's ignored or denied or, worse yet, shamed.

My goal would be that we stop treating mental illness with shame or ignorance. The young person of whom you speak, if he had diabetes or an allergy to bee stings or needs glasses would likely not be ignored, or shamed for not being able to read a computer screen without his glasses. But, if it's a mental illness, that's how he's treated. Not just by family, friends, acquaintances, etc., but insurances, etc., too. Even doctors look at psychiatrists very differently than surgeons.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
What I think we need to do is, as a people, modify our culture over the next generation or so to allow for mental health issues to be renamed/revisualized as just health issues, same as any other. If we do that, remove stigma from mental health issues, we may be able to treat them better, and thus help people much earlier on.
Yeah, that sort of thinking is how we got here in the first place. There is a big difference between someone with a treatable illness, mental or otherwise, and a rabid human. When someone wants to kill themselves, they can benefit from treatment; when they want to kill a bunch of strangers, they are irreparably insane and the only treatment is strapping them to the chair.

Lumping people with clinical depression or bipolar or low self-esteem or what have you in with homicidal maniacs annoys me because they are NOT the same thing and shouldn't be even remotely compared. That's why they shut down all the mental hospitals and set those freaks loose to prey on us: because they equated them to those with mild treatable disorders.

People who rape and kill SHOULD be stigmatized. Violent predators SHOULD be stigmatized.

The biggest problem, from my observation, is drugs. Legal drugs, street drugs - they will **** a person up. And now the Leftists whine about legalizing that crap so more people can go crazy. BRILLIANT!
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that sort of thinking is how we got here in the first place. There is a big difference between someone with a treatable illness, mental or otherwise, and a rabid human. When someone wants to kill themselves, they can benefit from treatment; when they want to kill a bunch of strangers, they are irreparably insane and the only treatment is strapping them to the chair.

Lumping people with clinical depression or bipolar or low self-esteem or what have you in with homicidal maniacs annoys me because they are NOT the same thing and shouldn't be even remotely compared. That's why they shut down all the mental hospitals and set those freaks loose to prey on us: because they equated them to those with mild treatable disorders.

People who rape and kill SHOULD be stigmatized. Violent predators SHOULD be stigmatized.

The biggest problem, from my observation, is drugs. Legal drugs, street drugs - they will **** a person up. And now the Leftists whine about legalizing that crap so more people can go crazy. BRILLIANT!
I think you may be misunderstanding. I am not looking to have the murderer found not guilty by reason of bad childhood. I'm looking to have the murder not exist in the first place. What I mean is, we don't wait for Johnny or Janey to shoot up a shopping mall, we note back when they were sophomores in high school and ran over kittens' heads with their car. You know, catch 'em early.

Rapists and murderers SHOULD be stigmatized and definitively punished in a deterrence kind of way. I know for sure evil people, not just mentally infirmed people, exist. But, I think most of the people could be caught and fixed early enough if we just destigmatize the mental health industry. We wouldn't tell little Jilly that her broken arm is her problem and she should just stop complaining about the pain, then bitch when she's physically handicapped later in life when we could have fixed it young. That's all I'm saying.

I would add that a problem with this is also drugs - not illegal ones, but psychotropic drugs. Most of the recent mass shooters were on psychotropic drugs already. Is there a potential they are a contributor and not a solution?
 
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