'Am I going to jail?' Shocking moment a SIX-YEAR-OLD girl is committed to a mental health facility

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
  • Police bodycam footage has emerged showing Nadia Falk, six, being escorted from her elementary school in Jacksonville, Florida, by a group of cops
  • Her mother Martina expressed her pain at seeing her daughter being taken away
  • Nadia was said to have been heavily sedated, isolated and held for 48 hours
  • She was claimed to have been throwing things and attacking school staff
  • Sympathetic cops questioned why they had been called out
  • The officers said that Nadia seemed pleasant, calm and co-operative
  • The six-year-old was committed under the Baker Act, a Florida law
  • The act allows involuntary detention for people impaired by mental illness
  • Love Grove Elementary School is investigating the incident
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8004333/Shocking-moment-six-year-old-girl-involuntarily-committed-mental-health-facility.html
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
This is a real question:

What were they supposed to do with her? Anyone have a better idea?

Let's put aside the propaganda piece including the cute photo - "See? She's fine!" - and go with what the school says happened. The kid melted down and became violent, was a danger to herself and others. What should the adults have done?

At some point teachers are going to have to have full time cams in their classroom because I'm guessing we'd all have a different take if we saw this girl's episode. As it stands, the media is presenting it as no big deal - just a tantrum - and these Nazi school people just snatched her up and threw her in the gulag for no reason. We're hearing from the Mom and the Mom's lawyer - I'd like to hear from the teacher but unfortunately they are forbidden to speak to the press.
 

black dog

Free America
Where are we heading as a country?

The mental health law in Florida, known as the Baker Act, allows involuntary psychiatric examination of anyone, regardless of their age.

Under state law, children may be removed from school, transported to a psychiatric facility and held for up to 72 hours without consent from their parents.

In Florida 36,078 children were sent for involuntary psychiatric examination during in 2017-2018 alone, a rise of 3,000 from the previous year.

The act is intended to only be used if there is reason to believe that the person is impaired by their mental illness and they are unable or unwilling to accept voluntary treatment.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
While the article states the Baker Act "makes no differentiation between children and adults ", I just don't believe the intent the law was for 6 years to be carted away to a mental institution, without a parent's knowledge or say-so. How can a child fall under clause 2 of the law:

"Because of his or her mental illness the person has refused voluntary examination or is unable to determine whether examination is necessary"

All three requirements must be met in order for someone to be committed against their will. How can a 6 year old even understand what it means to refuse examination? This was allegedly a kid that threw some sort of temper tantrum. This happened all the time when I went to school. The kid was sent to the principle's office, chewed out, and in some instances the parents were called to come get their kid. Then the parents dealt with it. What a new world we live in where LE just walks in and hauls a kid off to a mental institution, and not bother to first notify the parent/s.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Call the parent and have them deal with her. :sshrug:

Do parents no longer have a role in their own kids anymore?
I'm guessing that was the first call, but the propaganda piece doesn't say so. Perhaps they couldn't get ahold of the parent?

Anyway, in the meantime while you're trying to run down the kid's parent, the kid is running amok and endangering themselves and those around them. How do you handle that? Just let them rock on until you can get a parent there?

Walk it through. You are a teacher in a classroom with 20-some kids. One starts screaming, melting down, throwing things, and busting up the place. You try to calm them but they just get more agitated. What do you do?

We're so quick to criticize and get sucked into these manipulation pieces, I'd like to see us read and consider with more objectivity.

And if I had to make a guess, this isn't that kid's first rodeo. Normal children don't just kirk out like that, there is typically a pattern of behavior. Not to mention, if the child has special needs she should be in a special needs school, not dumped in with the general population. That's not fair to the child OR the other students, and it's certainly not fair to the teacher and school administration who are likely not trained for incidents like this.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
One of the problems is that teachers and principals are not allowed to touch the child these days.
Back in my day they would have put a yardstick across my ass and straightened me out.
 

Tech

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing that was the first call, but the propaganda piece doesn't say so. Perhaps they couldn't get ahold of the parent?

Anyway, in the meantime while you're trying to run down the kid's parent, the kid is running amok and endangering themselves and those around them. How do you handle that? Just let them rock on until you can get a parent there?

Walk it through. You are a teacher in a classroom with 20-some kids. One starts screaming, melting down, throwing things, and busting up the place. You try to calm them but they just get more agitated. What do you do?

We're so quick to criticize and get sucked into these manipulation pieces, I'd like to see us read and consider with more objectivity.

And if I had to make a guess, this isn't that kid's first rodeo. Normal children don't just kirk out like that, there is typically a pattern of behavior. Not to mention, if the child has special needs she should be in a special needs school, not dumped in with the general population. That's not fair to the child OR the other students, and it's certainly not fair to the teacher and school administration who are likely not trained for incidents like this.
Meanwhile the teacher has handle the other 5 emotional that the district has given her while one is freaking and triggering the others. This is going on and your C student does not get the education they need because they don't put them with the A students.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I'm guessing that was the first call, but the propaganda piece doesn't say so. Perhaps they couldn't get ahold of the parent?

Anyway, in the meantime while you're trying to run down the kid's parent, the kid is running amok and endangering themselves and those around them. How do you handle that? Just let them rock on until you can get a parent there?

Walk it through. You are a teacher in a classroom with 20-some kids. One starts screaming, melting down, throwing things, and busting up the place. You try to calm them but they just get more agitated. What do you do?

We're so quick to criticize and get sucked into these manipulation pieces, I'd like to see us read and consider with more objectivity.

And if I had to make a guess, this isn't that kid's first rodeo. Normal children don't just kirk out like that, there is typically a pattern of behavior. Not to mention, if the child has special needs she should be in a special needs school, not dumped in with the general population. That's not fair to the child OR the other students, and it's certainly not fair to the teacher and school administration who are likely not trained for incidents like this.
According to this ABC article, the mother was notified, but apparently had no say in it. She was informed they were taking her to a facility - according to the mother "Baker Acted". Parents have no say. You're asserting a 6 year old can't be controlled until the parent gets there?

This is where we are. Kid gets out of control, call the cops and have her hauled off. Screw the parents' say. You tell me Vrai. You're a parent. This is acceptable to you if your 6 year old child was hauled off to a mental institution without your consent, or ability to handle the situation at all? That it requires law enforcement to take care of it? This just wasn't something ever happened when we were kids. What changed?
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
This is a real question:

What were they supposed to do with her? Anyone have a better idea?

Let's put aside the propaganda piece including the cute photo - "See? She's fine!" - and go with what the school says happened. The kid melted down and became violent, was a danger to herself and others. What should the adults have done?

At some point teachers are going to have to have full time cams in their classroom because I'm guessing we'd all have a different take if we saw this girl's episode. As it stands, the media is presenting it as no big deal - just a tantrum - and these Nazi school people just snatched her up and threw her in the gulag for no reason. We're hearing from the Mom and the Mom's lawyer - I'd like to hear from the teacher but unfortunately they are forbidden to speak to the press.
Back 50 years ago we had special classes for special education.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
If the kid is really as whacked out as they claim shouldn't she be on the short bus school?
Really? What does that actually mean?

"Short bus schools" are no longer allowed under the I.D.E.A. (a federal law, by the way)

If this child is attending school with the types of behaviors that would lead the police to take her for psychiatric evaluation under the Baker Act, I would almost 100% guarantee you that there is an issue much more serious than a mere "temper tantrum". She is also not being served appropriately, which is also a shame, not to mention, a crime under the IDEA.

Whether she has psychiatric issues/disabilities or has a developmental disability, hopefully the 72 hour hospitalization will begin the process of evaluation. There are many facets to having a child evaulated and properly placed in Special Education. I hope this child's issues are properly identified and she will get the help she obviously needs.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
And if I had to make a guess, this isn't that kid's first rodeo. Normal children don't just kirk out like that, there is typically a pattern of behavior. Not to mention, if the child has special needs she should be in a special needs school, not dumped in with the general population. That's not fair to the child OR the other students, and it's certainly not fair to the teacher and school administration who are likely not trained for incidents like this.
I can't disagree with this part. But, I'm just having a hard time getting why cops need to be called for these things. We're talking children having cops haul them off. Cops are law enforcers. They get called when the law is being broken, not when a child throws a temper tantrum. It's just not a world I am getting used to.
 

WingsOfGold

Well-Known Member
Really? What does that actually mean?

"Short bus schools" are no longer allowed under the I.D.E.A. (a federal law, by the way)

If this child is attending school with the types of behaviors that would lead the police to take her for psychiatric evaluation under the Baker Act, I would almost 100% guarantee you that there is an issue much more serious than a mere "temper tantrum". She is also not being served appropriately, which is also a shame, not to mention, a crime under the IDEA.

Whether she has psychiatric issues/disabilities or has a developmental disability, hopefully the 72 hour hospitalization will begin the process of evaluation. There are many facets to having a child evaulated and properly placed in Special Education. I hope this child's issues are properly identified and she will get the help she obviously needs.
What does it mean? Quite simple "IF" the kid really does have serious issues she needs to be in a special needs class minimum or even school if its that bad.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Really? What does that actually mean?

"Short bus schools" are no longer allowed under the I.D.E.A. (a federal law, by the way)

If this child is attending school with the types of behaviors that would lead the police to take her for psychiatric evaluation under the Baker Act, I would almost 100% guarantee you that there is an issue much more serious than a mere "temper tantrum". She is also not being served appropriately, which is also a shame, not to mention, a crime under the IDEA.

Whether she has psychiatric issues/disabilities or has a developmental disability, hopefully the 72 hour hospitalization will begin the process of evaluation. There are many facets to having a child evaulated and properly placed in Special Education. I hope this child's issues are properly identified and she will get the help she obviously needs.
I just think it should be the parent that takes the child there, and not cops. I'm trying to imagine the potential trauma this kids might be feeling having these big strangers in uniforms taking her to a place she has no idea about. A parent better equipped to explain to the kid what's going on.
 

WingsOfGold

Well-Known Member
I can't disagree with this part. But, I'm just having a hard time getting why cops need to be called for these things. We're talking children having cops haul them off. Cops are law enforcers. They get called when the law is being broken, not when a child throws a temper tantrum. It's just not a world I am getting used to.
Cops get used for everything and everything. If one needs to call the fire dept for a simple brush fire....... the cops are also there.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
What does it mean? Quite simple "IF" the kid really does have serious issues she needs to be in a special needs class minimum or even school if its that bad.
I think Bann is taking issue with your "short bus" comment.

Would putting her in a "special needs" class change anything in terms of her outbursts?
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Cops get used for everything and everything. If one needs to call the fire dept for a simple brush fire....... the cops are also there.
This much is true. I think it's an unnecessary use of those resources. Would you be okay with the cops hauling your 6 year old (assuming you had/have one) off anywhere from school?
 

WingsOfGold

Well-Known Member
This much is true. I think it's an unnecessary use of those resources. Would you be okay with the cops hauling your 6 year old (assuming you had/have one) off anywhere from school?
Depending on what the kid did, gun to school... sure, temper tantrum, probably not.
 

WingsOfGold

Well-Known Member
I think Bann is taking issue with your "short bus" comment.

Would putting her in a "special needs" class change anything in terms of her outbursts?
That could well be, I have a nasty habit of telling it like it is sometimes. Short bus engulfs nearly any non normal school from drug abusers to special needs. Are they still around... I assumed so.
 
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