And last but not least - history!
- Thread starter DeeJay
- Start date
No, they were just more loyal to their State. We used to say the United States "are", now we say the United States "is". The nation was once a collection of independent states.
Yep..and a Republic with some member states who agreed only reluctantly to join that union only 73 years earlier..
jrt_ms1995
Well-Known Member
I still say that (and you probably do, too).
Wouldn't call it stupid or dumb. Upon the founding of the nation state sovereignty and independence were key matters. Article 2 of the Articles of Confederation states "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled." The Constitution, initially silent on this matter, had to include the restrictions of the Bill of Rights upon the Government to secure ratification by the States. Of these restrictions is the 10th Amendment that states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Thus those things not explicitly included within the Constitution are retained by the individual States (or the people). As an example, seceding from the Union is not covered within the Constitution, so it should, no it must, be a legal authority of the State/s.
Actually, that wasn't my point.
Lee stated, when offered command of a new army to force the seceding states back into the Union, that “could take no part in an invasion of the Southern states.” He explained this to his sister, Anne Marshall, this way "Now we are in a state of war, which will yield to nothing. The whole South is in a state of revolution…and though I recognize no necessity for this state of things, and would have forborne and pleaded to the end for redress of grievances, real or supposed…I had to meet the question whether I should take part against my native state.
With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have, therefore, resigned my commission in the Army, and, save in defense of my native state, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword."
Lee's service record and service to the fledgling republic were remarkable for their breadth and depth, prior to resigning. He certainly did not look forward to facing so many of his former officers and friends on an opposing side in the field of battle. But again...loyalties were to states and the general consensus by many of those states was that the Federal government was..or was going to...overstep it's authority. As it turned out, Lincoln took quite a number of anti-Constitutional actions and set some unfortunate precedents that we're still paying a price for today.
Another thing that's lost on non-historians...the CSA did not suddenly spring in to being and declare war. Quite the opposite, in fact...there were states that seceded simply expecting to be able to do that peacefully and just be left alone to go their way. Some were very reluctant to join the new Confederacy because they were like "WTF?..are you kidding?..we just went to all the trouble of leaving one".
There are written records of the astonishment and consternation expressed by many southern leaders when Ft. Sumter was attacked; many thought that was very foolish and rash..a very poorly considered and unecessarily provocative action.
Last edited:
Lee was, later in life, my GG Grandfather's headmaster at Washington College in Lexington, VA. My GG grandfather was the youngest of four brothers (from Alabama) and the only one of them that survived the war. Another, more distant, relative of mine was killed by friendly fire; had he lived the outcome at Gettysburg might have been different (a conjectural topic covered in depth by many historians). His name was Thomas J. Jackson.
It's become quite popular now, particularly in the academic circles, to distort or redefine the history of that era in order to erase it. I guess we've come full circle..it was popular back in the day to glorify actions and behaviors - an entire "southern" way of life even - in ways that were not accurate or valid.
I'm descended most directly to this fella..who was also George Washington's first true biographer in addition to being a Chief Justice. The Jackson connection is a separate branch of the tree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall
My great aunt..the grand daughter of my GG grandfather I described earlier, passed away just short of her 101st birthday. She was always the de-facto family historian. Interestingly too...she qualified for (had to be directly related to someone who fought) and was a lifetime member of both the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) and the United Daughters of the Confederacy. LOL. She saw no conflict in that..and neither do I.
Oh yes...couple of cousins or second cousins in Tennessee and Alabama are really in to keeping everything up to date. We still have the original family "estate" property in Alabama too...but the mansion house burned in the mid 1960s, the original 100% cedar log home (first significant building put on the property in the mid 1800s*) was sold to a pencil company in the 50s and the 2-story frame home still remaining had a minor fire in the late 60s but was never repaired or reoccupied and is a rotten pile of debris now. The large limestone quarry that my great grandfather ran is a "lake" now..
* My GGG grandfather built a false wall along the inside of the log home - it sat on a high ridge and faced the valley where an old highway used to be. They called it the "military road" later on; it's gone now, replaced by state Hwy 43 which moved various sections including the one that went through Isbell. He did that so he could spy on, and report, Union troop movements without it being obvious what he was able to see - and up to - if anyone showed up searched the house.
I could literally have the entire property if I wanted it, just for the asking. One of my cousins has been paying the small annual property tax bill on it (80 acres in the middle of nowhere Alabama with no structures on it..taxes are cheap). During our last reunion it was made clear that whoever wanted to take it over was more than welcome to. But the missus isn't having anything to do with moving to a place that's just as hot and humid as it is here...LOL.
It will end up being sold soon, probably. My cousin that takes care of the taxes etc is in her 70s. Won't bring much...and I'll get 1/5 of the proceeds. Might keep me in beer for a few months.
Last edited:
Well...perhaps...but they occur so very seldom. The last one was in 2010 and the "host" local family had to hire people to come in and chop down trees to even gain access to the old family graveyard..had to bush hog and cut small trees to even get to the quarry lake where we put my grandmother's and her sister's ashes in that day.
The last standing family mansion..and its in really bad shape. Jam packed with an amazing array of antiques though...
Last edited:
Sad..very sad. The old mansion is crumbling around them and they have no money to do needed repairs. It was once magnificent..I have a newspaper clipping from a long article done for a social column in a north Alabama newspaper back in the 50s when the place and all it's contents were still in their glory.
The current family owner is has ""IV" at the end of his name and his 30-something son has "V" at the end of his. Them aristocratic types sure liked to pass their names on...LOL.
But I'm one to talk...my father was a "III" and I would have been a "IV" had they not decided to name me also after my uncle the West Point grad who was killed leading the charge in the first "hamburger hill" in Korea. So my middle name is different...no "IV" for me.
Last edited:
That's the old limestone quarry. They fill back up with water when they are abandoned. The railroad tracks still run through the property where they loaded the stone for shipment. Some of the most beautiful government and commercial buildings in Russellville and Muscle Shoals were built with limestone from that quarry.
It's very deep...and in the bottom are the old quarry machines still.
Sneakers
Just sneakin' around....
Absolutely.