And the truth starts spewing out...

BuddyLee

Football addict
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5833197/

As I suspected the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are bitterly angry about Kerry's post war protests, the tall tale lies begin to unfold.


PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.

"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."


A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.

"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."

A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.

Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."
 

grandpa

Member
Kerry

Very few of us are worried about how many medals, and how they were "earned". Most of us were hurt by the anti-war speaches that condemed all of us that were in the conflict. I feel that I can speak for 99% in saying, we didn't do any of that stuff. Let the matter drop!
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
What were there on that mission, 5 boats, 7 man crews, apparently some Grunt’s being transported and probably as many unique memories of what actually happened as there were men involved. But as Grandpa said it really isn’t about that for most of us, though it really seems to be an issue with the Swiftboat vets.

The idea that Kerry was on a medal gathering tour for his future benefit and that he publicly ridiculed and charged his brothers in arms with war crimes (that he claims he took part in) is what scorches my butt. He has, in my eyes, admitted that he has performed illegal atrocities against an enemy in combat and now he wants to be our military’s Commander-in-Chief and the chief enforcer of our nation’s laws. Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy of this?
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
Ken King said:
The idea that Kerry was on a medal gathering tour for his future benefit and that he publicly ridiculed and charged his brothers in arms with war crimes (that he claims he took part in) is what scorches my butt. He has, in my eyes, admitted that he has performed illegal atrocities against an enemy in combat and now he wants to be our military’s Commander-in-Chief and the chief enforcer of our nation’s laws. Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy of this?
Of course you're not. I could be wrong, but I think a lot of people who seem to send the message - "it's no big deal", are possibly too young to remember that era.
I was in the military all through that timeframe, and while I did not get sent to VietNam, I met a lot of guys who did. They were changed forever by the experience, and most all of them served honorably.
That was a raw time in America then. Even if you never went over there, your being in uniform brought dirty looks from some people and/or verbal scorn
from others. In a Tennessee airport, somebody spit on the floor after I had just walked by, going to board my flight.
These folks hadn't any idea where I was going, or what I was going to do; yet they somehow "knew" it wasn't good. Right!
To think that a man(?) like J.F Kerry had the foresight(again,??) to go into a Base Exchange at Cam Rahn Bay and purchase an 8mm camcorder, just to film his military exploits for future political use makes me want to :barf:

In four short months, he managed to get himself 3 Purple Hearts, a Bronze and Silver Star commodations?

Sorry people, it seems just a little contrived; too neatly done, and then he comes home and reverses course??

He turns antiwar and denounces his brothers?

I don't buy it for a minute. He's a sham. A :loser:
 

ylexot

Super Genius
BuddyLee said:
As I suspected the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are bitterly angry about Kerry's post war protests
You suspected? :dork: That has always been their main complaint. Maybe you need to listen to what they say a little closer.
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
ylexot said:
You suspected? :dork: That has always been their main complaint. Maybe you need to listen to what they say a little closer.
I don't know if any of you have seen the reply I posted today in the Fascist Whiny Kerry thread, but one author has built a case where he thinks Kerry had tried to get out of Viet Nam, contrary to his bravado statement that he sought out the path to honor, and volunteered for the assignment.
The author says he enlisted in the US Navy Reserves, after being denied a student exemption to continue his college studies in - France!

He, Kerry, figured it was a safe option, that his unit wouldn't be called up and be shipped out and sent to Nam!

Well, how about it John? Are you really a patriot, or a fraud?
 

BuddyLee

Football addict
ylexot said:
You suspected? :dork: That has always been their main complaint. Maybe you need to listen to what they say a little closer.

No but they sure focus around this complaint more than any other.
 

Gooseneck

Active Member
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire"

Sure doesn't seem like he was all that sure to me. I'll stick with my initial opinion until I hear something a bit more substantiative on Kerry's behalf.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
SmallTown said:
Man, would have been a lot easier for Kerry to just avoid going to war. I mean hey, it worked for Bush.

I don't know how you can consider someone joining the guard or reserve avoiding a war.. they've been called up in EVERY major conflict in history. AND if I remember right Bush VOLUNTEERED, for what was the name of it.. Palace Guard? to get deployed to Vietnam, but his iarcraft type wasn't being included in the air battle, so in turn he wasn't deployed.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think a guardsman or reservist bleed red just like an active duty soldier..

My father in law was in the Air Guard during the same time I was on acitve duty in the Army.. he deployed a LOT more then I did.. He deployed to EVERY combat action in the last 20 years..

.. and as far as Kerry.. I don't think I can vote for ANYONE that called my father a war criminal.. Lets see.. Kerry.. 4.5 months on a Navy boat.. Dad... 3 FULL combat tours to include one in Korea, and two in Vietnam/Cambodia (yes he was REALLY in Camboida)... OKAY I lied.. 2.75 combat tours, he was MEDVACED out early from his last tour... think I'll vote for my dad instead..
And after three full combat tours, (to include 1st Air Cav)compared to 4.5 months on a boat.. Kerry has my Dad beat in awards AND purple hearts, although I have never heard mention of a "V" device for Kerry's Bronze Star..
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
itsbob said:
.. and as far as Kerry.. I don't think I can vote for ANYONE that called my father a war criminal.. Lets see.. Kerry.. 4.5 months on a Navy boat.. Dad... 3 FULL combat tours to include one in Korea, and two in Vietnam/Cambodia (yes he was REALLY in Camboida)... OKAY I lied.. 2.75 combat tours, he was MEDVACED out early from his last tour...

.....think I'll vote for my dad instead..
And after three full combat tours, (to include 1st Air Cav)compared to 4.5 months on a boat.. Kerry has my Dad beat in awards AND purple hearts, although I have never heard mention of a "V" device for Kerry's Bronze Star..
After reading these posts again, I wondering, is it possible J.F. Kerry could have "engineered" his way out of Viet Nam as expeditiously as he did?

4 and a half months, three Purple Hearts, a Silver and Bronze Star, and a whole lot of footage of 8mm film, featuring him all decked out with weapons held at the ready.

Did he/could he have been so foresighted(for lack of a better term) to "use" his brief role in Viet Nam for perceived political gain, could he have thought that far ahead?
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
itsbob said:
Am I reading this right.. he had his citations re-written during the REAGAN administration?? TEN years after the war?
Yeah, you're reading it right; the grand question of the day is....why?

I can't speak for the rest of you veterans out there, but when I retired from the military, there was a dog and pony show you had to endure. It was known as preparing to retire.
I had to pore over my official records to ensure they were valid and complete, and then I had to sign for them as one more step in leaving the service.
I've got all my evaluations, medals, awards and decorations, medical records, dental records and such.

So, what did J.F. Kerry not have in his official files, that he "discovered" was missing 10 years later?
 
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