Another griping man

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
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He has a point in most of what he says, but clearly he's young with an inability to see into the future. Sure, you're cute now and skanks on some app are willing to give you free sex, but what happens when you turn 50? What happens when you are no longer interested in being a bar fly? How about when you start having health issues?

I don't think men value companionship the way women do. Maybe it's because some woman has always provided that so they take it for granted, or maybe it's just the way they are. But there's something to be said for sharing your life with a partner, someone who has your back, someone you share memories with. "Remember that time we....?" Or is there an app for that, too?

I wonder if we as a society are getting away from human companionship. So many young people live their lives online these days and don't actually interact with real humans on any meaningful level. It's not just men who don't want to get married anymore; women don't want that either. Some of these chicks you hear about, they're more interested in the wedding and the actual guy is somewhat incidental. Others are so focused on their career and whathaveyou that there's no room for a relationship. It's been that way for awhile - back in the 90s we were talking about this exact same issue.

And again, these disgruntled relationship losers are almost exclusively found in urban areas. So perhaps their environment is what's preventing them from having a successful partnership.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
So very much here - but - in almost any age, men have been resistant to marriage. It's a lot of things and it's hyper dependent on culture. In cultures where marriages are an arranged matter, where family and children are the building blocks to a successful addition to society - marriage isn't so bad a thing. It is the way of things. I was impressed during our adoption journeys just HOW VITAL family was to everyone, and how very much extended family is the best way to live. A few hundred years ago until maybe a hundred, women were eager to marry partly because of shame - the need to be viewed as a success and not a failure - pressure to have children - and so forth. Marrying was the major stepping stone in THEIR advancement.

Hence - men were reluctant to marry just ANYONE. THEY drove the situation. They could pick.

As early as a hundred years ago, that began to change. I am not sure why - but it changed from the days when the man more or less picked his wife to a mutual thing to more and more women being the stronger force. "Dating" became a thing. Women could refuse. There was still societal pressure to marry. There still existed the fear of being an "old maid". To a lesser extent - an aging bachelor - well society said things about THEM, too. And I can easily remember a time when being DIVORCED was a kind of social stigma - it said "failure".

Latter half of last century, so much changed. It became acceptable for all kinds of things - remaining a childless couple - living together - getting divorced and remarrying - coming out - waiting longer to have kids - and so on.

When I was small - most people I knew had many cousins - many uncles and relatives - and in a pinch, they could all help if needed. It was a good idea to marry, have children and "plug in" to the rest of the family network.

That kind of - stopped. I don't have a reason - maybe everything.

____

As you observed, the writer is young and makes a lot of points but they are primarily pertinent to recent years and recent changes in society. I think in parts of Western culture, it's becoming increasingly less advantageous to be or remain married. I do believe in the not too distant future, that will change - because OTHER cultures strong with families - Asian cultures, Hispanic cultures, Muslim cultures and especially continental African culture - will overtake it, because it is really hard to beat a large network of close family. The only thing I know of that competes as well in our culture is strong religious communities and they are ALSO disappearing from American culture.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Wanted to comment on this too...

Sure, you're cute now and skanks on some app are willing to give you free sex, but what happens when you turn 50?

There is ALWAYS the case of - why buy the cow? There's ALWAYS going to be people who mostly value the sex in a relationship. After my sisters were divorced and had children - they really weren't interested in relationships with men to be serious. They'd done that.

I don't think men value companionship the way women do.

Yeah, but - and I remember having this discussion with my Dad, years ago - it really is hard for men, especially as they get older. Society tends to discourage real brotherly comradery among men outside certain venues - sports, common interests like golf or fishing, workplace friends and so on. Because to have close companionship, you have to do things which men find extremely difficult - open up. It is NOT JUST because men find it hard - other men aren't going to want be that way either.

I find my wife is generally able to be friends with other women extremely easily. If it weren't for her - I might not have very many friends at all, if it weren't for church, work, and the husbands of her friends.

I think men do value companionship - it's just hard, and it's hard to initiate.
 

vraiblonde

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Yeah, but - and I remember having this discussion with my Dad, years ago - it really is hard for men, especially as they get older. Society tends to discourage real brotherly comradery among men outside certain venues - sports, common interests like golf or fishing, workplace friends and so on. Because to have close companionship, you have to do things which men find extremely difficult - open up. It is NOT JUST because men find it hard - other men aren't going to want be that way either.

I have had over my life a number of close male friends who routinely "opened up" and discussed emotional things. So guys do want to talk about that stuff, they just don't want to talk about it with each other.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I have had over my life a number of close male friends who routinely "opened up" and discussed emotional things. So guys do want to talk about that stuff, they just don't want to talk about it with each other.

And I have had female friends I could chat with - still do. Very few male ones, and much fewer than when I was younger.

That, plus there's an awkward dynamic in any kind of a relationship with a woman especially at the beginning. It's easy when both are just not interested but are just trying to be friends. I usually find it easy to befriend my wife's friends. When I was beginning a relationship with a girlfriend - there's that awkward dance of whether you want to invest anything or reveal something negative about yourself.

With men, the main route is for there already to be a REASON - say, you're in a group for your son's special needs - or dealing with substance abuse - and that sort of thing. There already exists some pressure to be more open.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
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With men, the main route is for there already to be a REASON - say, you're in a group for your son's special needs - or dealing with substance abuse - and that sort of thing. There already exists some pressure to be more open.

Well, one of the things women gripe most about with men is that they don't communicate. They internalize everything until it builds up and comes freight training out inappropriately. Whenever you ask a guy what he's thinking about, he invariably answers, "Nothing." It's rare for a guy to pleasantly surprise you by saying, "I'm thinking about work" or sports or naked women or something deeper.

Women are ALWAYS thinking about something. They have no "nothing box" in their brain. Even if it's just an earworm they can't get rid of, there's still some brain activity. And if it's something of note, you don't have to ask them what they're thinking because they'll tell you without prompting.

My guy buds would have had much better relationship success had they talked to their girlfriend like they talked to me. There's something about having sex with a woman that turns men into dolts. They are quite communicative with women they aren't romantically involved with.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I don't think men value companionship the way women do.

Neither do young women .......

spend some time on Reddit r/Dating_advice r/relationship_advice

lots of FWB post from young girls .... boo hoo'n about why they never get a call back between hookups


Whenever you ask a guy what he's thinking about, he invariably answers, "Nothing." It's rare for a guy to pleasantly surprise you by saying, "I'm thinking about work" or sports or naked women or something deeper.


I love it .... I can sit on the couch and have a clear mind, my wife on the other hand has 50 things going through her head at once


There's something about having sex with a woman that turns men into dolts.

after 16 yrs married and 21 yrs knowing each other, there isn't much left to be said, except

What is for dinner ?
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
There's something about having sex with a woman that turns men into dolts.

I have countless stories of women I've known who couldn't see their guy was a jerk, mistreated them, were grossly cheating on them - all because they were just so smitten. Nearly as many for women who would NOT LET GO even AFTER they knew. Maybe it's not the sex, but it still makes 'em stupid.
 

Kyle

ULTRA-F###ING-MAGA!
PREMO Member
kum4b78xmkt21.jpg
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Women are ALWAYS thinking about something. They have no "nothing box" in their brain.
Men do too. I work with them. On a project, they have mapped out every contingency in their head - costs, time, effort, pitfalls - AND they are calculating the days to retirement. AND working on their home project. AND planning their kid's football team. AND planning the visits to the store on the way home. AND - if I asked my Dad what he was thinking about - if he was honest - he had a LIST about ten items long. When he'd see the glassy look in my eye - next time he'd say "nothing". What is the point of flapping your gums to deaf ears?

And so on. What they DON'T spend a lot of mental time on is the emotional aspect of things - and they should. But they don't have a lot of outlets. Other men aren't interested, and most of the women aren't either unless it pertains to THEIR part of a relationship. And the kids are a drain until they're grown.

So as you say - they bottle it up and explode. Or commit suicide. Or drink which is just a slower suicide.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Someone here posted an article about the way men's and women's minds worked by using boxes as an analogy. Women can have multiple boxes opened at once. Men have only ever have one box open at a time.
 

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
Nearly as many for women who would NOT LET GO even AFTER they knew.
A lot of studies have been done on brain chemistry, and letting go of a significant other is akin to stopping a drug cold turkey. Some are simply locked into their addiction.
 

vraiblonde

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So as you say - they bottle it up and explode. Or commit suicide. Or drink which is just a slower suicide.

Wouldn't it be easier to just express themselves in a more positive manner? There is nothing more tedious than some surly man hmpfing around being a jerk, and when you ask him what's wrong he says "Nothing."

That's why guys are so touchy all the time - whatever they go on a rant about isn't what's pissing them off; they've bottled up all this anger and resentment, which festers to the point that they'll explode when you ask them what they want for dinner.

Since I'm not a man, my response to this ridiculous behavior is to press. "Clearly something is wrong because you're being an ahole. So out with it, what's wrong?" That just makes them angrier, but if you ignore them or suggest they drink themselves to death and get it over with that pisses them off too.

A simple conversation can be had:

Him: I'm upset because my boss doesn't seem to value my work.
Her: Yeah, pal, join the club.....

Ha ha, okay not really.

Her: Have you talked to him about it?

:killingme

Yeah, not that either.

Okay, here it really is:

Her: Well he's a dumbass who's obviously threatened by your talent. Want a sandwich? I have roast turkey in the fridge and some thick cut bacon.

It can literally be that simple.
 

Kyle

ULTRA-F###ING-MAGA!
PREMO Member
Wouldn't it be easier to just express themselves in a more positive manner? There is nothing more tedious than some surly man hmpfing around being a jerk, and when you ask him what's wrong he says "Nothing."

That's why guys are so touchy all the time - whatever they go on a rant about isn't what's pissing them off; they've bottled up all this anger and resentment, which festers to the point that they'll explode when you ask them what they want for dinner.

It warms us inside and why we keep the furnace turned down.
 
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